This is a two part blog
First window to submit for the first 1/2 of the book is Thursday, March 11 and Friday, March 12
Second window to submit for the second 1/2 is Sunday, March 14 and Monday, March 15
Tuesday, February 23, 2010
Their Eyes Were Watching God
Hi Guys! This is your blog and grade for Their Eyes Were Watching God...More to come
As you post comments - do include quotations and page numbers as you reference items. Look for symbols, outer-inner landscapes, the description and its significance - the characterization - dig deep to see what you find. The grading system is based on the exploratory nature of your comments, the depth of your thinking and what you do with your text references - or someone else's reference! Do not just agree - add your thoughts as well!
One thing I noticed about the book is the dialect. It helps to show the culture of black southern America. Also having a book written by a black author during the thirties, when the book was written, goes against the black stereotypes of the time of being stupid and uneducated and having this written by a black author shows that they could write when much of America thought they could not write. The dialect makes the book a little more difficult to read.
On page 88, there is interesting syntax where it says “All things concerning death and burial were said and one. Finish. End. Nevermore. Darkness. Deep hole. Dissolution. Eternity” (88). This is used to describe Janie after Joe’s funeral. The syntax is interesting because it lists words for the end but it puts them in fragments. Each word has its own sentence. This helps to make this section stand out. Also it adds to the negative tone about the death.
Austin, I find it ironic that Janie is sad for Joe's death because at the end of their marriage there wasn't really any love left. She has to force Joe to listen to how she felt on his death bed and still then he won't really listen to her thoughts. This also makes me think that the selection of text you choose reflects the view of the people around Janie rather than her actually feelings for Joe.
" 'Ah wants things weet wid mah marriage lak when you sit under a pear tree and think. Ah...'" (24) This quote really shows the symbolism of the pear tree she mentions throughout the previous chapter. Her happiness, at least in her mind, depends on who her husband is and whether or not she is actually in love with him. Its not too much to ask I don't think, but in hindsight one can she how it actually foreshadows the failure of her marriages to come. After reading up to page 110, I have to wonder if all her marriages will fail.
I don't understand the significance of personifying the vultures or whatever birds they are on pages 61-62. They talk of "bare, bare fat" killing this "man". I have no idea what they are talking about unless they are foreshadowing something in the future. I thought it might be a reference to Joe's success and how his marriage will not work out even if he is successful, but I'm not sure at all.
i think the tree is an important symbol within the book because she references it alot and compares her life to the pears and howe she wants her life to be like the pear
I have a question about Janie. It seems like she is pretty attractive, and most guys like her hair, but in one part of the book, one guy says something like, "She isn't anything but hair." So is Janie attactive or not? She must be to keep attracting these gentlemen suitors like nobody's business. I'm not just asking this because I feel like it, I think that it is important to the plot if she is, and makes the book more interesting or less believable if she isn't. I feel like Teacake would not be interesting in a 40 year old woman unless she was attractive, when he is himself 20 years old.
I think that it is interesting that Janie keeps running away from her problems while most would characterize her as a strong woman. I thought I would until I realized that she contemplated running away from Jody as well. "Now and again she thought of a country road at sun-up and considered flight. To where? To what? Then too she considered thirty-five is twice seventeen and nothing was the same at all." Janie runs away from her problems, and if she was 17 again, she would probably run away from Jody. Although it would take courage for her to start anew, I don't know if she is exactly the character I envision her to be after this description.
“Ah’m just as stiff as you is stout. If you can stand not to chop and tote wood Ah reckon you can stand not to git no dinner. ‘Scuse mah freezolity, Mist’ Killicks, but Ah don’t mean to chop de first chip. “(24) This quote contains proof to Logan Killicks that Janie has no love for him. She uses a simile at the beginning of the quote to compare her to him. Then she, threatens him with no dinner if he does not want to chop wood. She then mocks him by calling him Mister Killicks which is obviously not what she should have to do since he is her husband. She does this to mock what he wants from her. Then she explains that chopping wood is not her work to do. This quote shows an increased dislike of Killicks and Janie being outright about it.
To respond to your question if Janie is attractive or not, I believe she is. First, there is a uh detailed quote about her description on page 2, "The men noticed her firm buttocks like she had grape fruits in her hip pockets; the great rope of black hair swinging to her waist and unraveling in the wind like a plume; then her pugnacious breasts trying to bore holes in her shirt. They, the men were saving with the mind what they lost with the eye." I believe the last sentence of that quote is referring to the fact she is in muddy clothing, but the men are ignoring that fact.
Now when the guy says, "She isn't anything but hair," I took hair to be a symbol. Jody does not let her wear her hair down because other men like to look at it then touch it. As she keeps her hair up, she has to learn to keep her opinions to herself and the love in their marriage fizzles. I believe her hair is symbolic of her freedom or free spirit. Furthermore, when Jody dies she wants to take her hair down: "Before she slept that night she burnt up every one of her head rags and went about the house next morning with her hair in one thick braid swinging well below her waist" (89). Having her hair hidden from the world was a symbol of her passive marriage and the superiority of her husband.
Then, when the man says "She isn't anything but hair," I took that as referring to her free spirit, which is not what men want. They want a well behaved wife.
"Janie saw her life like a great tree in leaf with the things suffered, things enjoyed, things done and undone. Dawn and doom was in the branches" (8).
I realize this is different from the pear tree imagery/symbol but I think this is worth mentioning as well. So, in this quote, Janie is comparing her life to a tree. I enjoy the contrasts and different variables in her life that she says the tree represents. Basically she is saying her life has happiness and sadness. I think different chapters of her life might be represented with branches so she also mentions each chapter in her life has "dawn and doom"
"She saw a dust-bearing bee sink into the sanctum of the bloom; the thousand sister-calyxes arch to meet the love embrace and the ecstatic shiver of the tree from foot to tiniest branch creaming in every blossom and frothing with delight. So this was a marriage!” (11)
In this quote the author makes use of two very important symbols. The author uses both the bee and the pear tree to give a description of what marriage should be like. The way the author describes marriage is very important because it adds meaning and foreshadows to the problems Janie encounters later on in the novel. One of the things that stood out to me in this quote was when the author says, “the thousand sister-calyxes arch to meet the love embrace…” This particular part of the quote stood out to me because here the author talks about the bee and the tree having mutual love. However, I don’t think that Janie has experienced this “mutual love” in any of her marriages. In her first marriage, it was evident that she had no feelings for Logan Killicks. In her second marriage, it is arguable whether or not she loves Joe, but I personally don’t think she did. I think that both Joe and Janie simply used each other. Janie uses Joe as a way of escaping from her misery with Logan, and at the same time Joe uses Janie to show off her beauty.
Going off of what Hilary said, adding to the tree imagery... I found three more examples of this on pages 11 and 24. First, Janie says "Ah wants things sweet wid mah marriage lak when you sit under a pear tree and think." (24) There seemed to be a repetitious use of trees as a symbol, and the pear tree in particular. I am not exactly sure what the trees in general symbolize but i found a parallel between the "pear tree" (11) and Janie's character. On page 11 I found two examples of this pear tree. One of them actually goes off of what Omar was saying. "She was stretched on her back beneath the pear tree soaking in the alto chant of the visiting bees, the gold of the sun and the panting breath of the breeze when the inaudible voice of it all came to her." (11) This is the first reference to the pear tree on this page, and I found the second reference to be the most important. It said, "Oh to be a pear tree - any tree in bloom!" (11) I found this parallel between Janie and the pear tree because the blooming of the tree seemed to represent Janie's blooming sexuality and her coming into her own person. And not only does the pear tree bloom with flowers but it also yields fruit (pears). The pears seemed to symbolize her sexuality and her fertility, while the blooming flowers seemed to symbolize her beauty. Throughout the book, thus far, the pear tree seems to parallel Janie's character.
... Anywho, I do agree with what you said, Hilary, in the fact that the tree is being compared to Janie's life, but I believe that it is mainly the pear tree that is being compared rather than trees in general. But i do agree with you!
Another interesting quote that I found is on pg. 49 when some of the townspeople are talking about Joe Starks. It says, "He's uh whirlwind among breezes,Jeff Bruce threw in. Speakin' of winds, he's the wind as we'se de grass. We bend which ever way he blows but at dat us needs him? One of the questions I have about this book is about the role of Joe Starks. After Joe becomes mayor of Eatonville, do the citizens respect him or fear him? Or is it that they feel that without Joe they are vulnerable, which is why they do what he tells them to do. I personally, think that the citizens have mixed feelings about him. I think that one of the reasons they obey him is because he is educated, and has helped them in many ways. Joe helps the town by putting money into it, and then he does many kind acts like when he bought the mule so it wouldn’t suffer.
Something that I found to be very important throughout these first chapters, was the use of the color gray. I found three references to the color in just the first 20 pages, that made me come to the conclusion that gray was intended to symbolize something important.
The first use of gray was spoken by Nanny when she says, "You wants me to suck de same sorrow yo' mama did, eh? Mah ole head ain't gray enough." (14) After reading this at first, I thought gray might symbolize knowledge because Nanny is much older than Janie (clearly) and with age comes knowledge. However, after reading this second quote I found a different interpretation of the color gray. "But it was a long time after dat befo' de Big Surrender at Richmond. Den de big bell ring in Atlanta and all de men in gray uniforms had to go to Moultrie, and bury their swords in de ground to show they was never to fight about slavery no mo'. So den we knowed we was free." (19)
After I read this quote, I started to think that the color gray symbolized the white slave owners, or oppression, or slavery. It switched from a positive connotation to a negative one. And, finally after the third reference I had a better under standing of what the color gray symbolized. "Nigger, whut's yo' baby doin' wid gray eyes and yaller hair?" (17)
This quote made me think that the color gray ambiguously symbolized the white people. It symbolized all that they had and the blacks didn't, slavery, oppression... Leafy was born with character traits (the yellow hair and "gray" eyes) that white people had; the men who surrendered after the Civil War wore "gray" coats (the Confederates) and symbolized those that defended slavery. And when Nanny said, "her ole head ain't "gray" enough," she was talking about the wisdom that comes with aging, but in refernce to the wisdom that the whites had, and the rights that the whites had.
Matt, this quote caught my attention as well. I think it is significant because I think the tree represents the only thing she has loved this far in the book. She has felt no love towards Logan Killicks. This shows that she has more love for the pear tree or sitting under the pear tree, than she has for her own husband.
Brandon, I really don't think that the tree is the only thing she loves, if she even loves the tree. I think of it more as a symbolic representation rather than an outlet for emotions.
“The people saw her come because it was sundown. The sun was gone, but he had left his foot prints on the sky.”( pg1)I think is interesting that is the image that introduces the story, as it is the beginning of the book and is starting with the end of it. also at sundown there is powerful images of the color oranges and reds, but the author does not take the time to describe this colors but she jumps to the dark image of the sun being gone, but this seem appropriated because of what she has said before, “ she had come back from burring the dead. “(pg1) which is a dark image. It is also parallel to the people sat in judgment, because as this women walks in in the dark they judge without knowing what has happen. This makes it ironic that they judge but that they are “ tongueless, earless, eyeless … Mules and other brutes occupied their skins.” That this people that are judging in the town have no right to judge is what I think she is saying they are not only blinded by the sun but also by their lack of intelligence. When it says that he has left footprints on the sky , it makes me think that this person who she has buried has left her very good memories that will be with her for the rest of her life.
Going of what Matt said to Brandon, i agree with Matt as Brenna and Hilary said the tree is more of a parallel to her not the is the thing that she loves, because even thought she did not love her first husband as she left him for Joe and she did not love him either, because she was happy when he did as he never treated her as his equal(because of the time period women are less than men) I think that she will love Tea Cake because is a death that marks her as it says at the begging of the book.
Matt- I think that Janie is supposed to be attractive... they talk about her in her overalls in the beginning of the book as still showing her "womanhood" so I assume that means she is an attractive woman. Her attractiveness and beauty is probably why she has changed men (so to speak) 3 times in this first half of the book. She isn't happy.
The first major theme or symbol that I found interesting was the light/dark theme mentioned on page 44. “Dis town needs some light right now.” “Unh hunh, it is uh little dark right long heah.” Here Jody and Janie are having a discussion over whether or not the town needs a street lamp. In my opinion this is a very loaded passage since Jody thinks he is just addressing the light issue but Janie knows that the new streetlamp will stand for so much more. This is a symbol for bringing intelligence and a new start to the town; it is the first of many significant changes that Jody tries to make in his quest for a perfect town. He wants so desperately to be like the white that he is trying to take the town out of the darkness, both literally and figuratively. Janie, however, knows that this new addition will only bring more harm to the small town since with new light comes a bigger ego for Jody. However, on the next page (45) when the town is attending the lighting ceremony Jody makes a statement that: “All we can do, if we want any light after de settin or before de risin, is tuh make some light ourselves.” In my opinion this is a theme for the black at that time because if they wanted a better life then they had to work for it. A person’s determination and perseverance is the only thing that can propel them into a better future and I feel like the lamp signified the town bringing in a beacon of hope and not just light. Jody moved to Florida in hopes of escaping oppression of the white people and to see himself succeed in a new place with new possibilities. Ironically when he arrives there he immediately takes over and begins to boss everyone around, like a white land owner. Then he buys a plot and build a house with: “…two stories with porches, with banisters and such things. The rest of the town looked like servant quarters surrounding the big house…he painted it-a gloatly, sparkly white.” (47) Jody is acting like a double standard and placing himself above everyone, which goes against every reason he had for moving to Florida in the first place. The bright white color is significant because it stands for power at that time and is the skin color he clearly wishes he possessed. Furthermore, the way the town is now designed his house is resembles a plantation, so while he is trying to help the new town, he is really hindering them and embarrassing them.
“This business of the head-rag irked her endlessly. But Jody was set on it. Her hair was NOT going to show in the store.” (55) Jody is a man that likes to be in total control and wants to be in charge of everyone and every last minute detail. Therefore he has a hard time being jealous and accepting that other man watch Janie. In response he demands that she keep her hair covered while in the store and in front of others. This is a perfectly good waste of such a symbol of beauty and it is Jody’s way of smothering Janie. In my opinion this is just one of Janie’s freedoms that he takes away and tries to make her resent. When in reality she should be proud of her hair and capable of showing it off freely, it is one of the last few things that she owns and can claim her own; one more thing that Jody demands the attention of. “She stood there until something fell off the shelf inside her. She stood there to see what it was. It was her image of Jody tumbled down and shattered.” (72) This is the breaking point for Janie. This quote symbolizes that she no longer sees Jody as a hero or as this wonderful man that saved her from her first marriage. No, instead he is not the dream man but more of a mannequin; he only stood in to replace what she didn’t have in the beginning. Now she is stuck with this loss of identity and the sense that she has no real love, just a fallacy. She is shocked when he hits her and that crushes her and makes her see that he is not a perfect man and that her fantasy is darker than she realized.
"Hambo said, 'Yo' wife is uh born orator Starks. Us never knowed dat befo'. She put jus' de right words tuh our thoughts'. Joe bit down hard on his cigar and beamed all around, but he never said a word. The town talked if for three days and said that's just what they would have done if they had been rich men like Joe Starks. Anyhow a free mule in town was something new to talk about" (58). This passage is a minor part of the plot but I thought it was important in contrasting the the relationship with Janie and the town and the relationship between Janie and Joe. The men in the town just love Janie, and she likes them too, but she is starting to believe at this point that she doesn't love Joe, and doesn't approve of some of the things he does in the town. She knows that her relationships are deteriorating and she just is not happy with anything she does. The men in the town also treat her like an object- something to attain. But Joe treats her more like an object than anyone, and it is disturbing. He even abuses her and she then knows that this is not going to work for her anymore. She wants to be loved genuinely.
"But after a while he died. Lum found him under the big tree on his rawbony back with all four feet up in the air. That wasn't natural and it didn't look right, but Sam said it would have been more unnatural for him to have laid down on his side and died like any other beast. He had seen Death coming and had stood his ground and fought it like a natural man. He had fought it to the last breath. Naturally he didn't have time to staighten himself out. Death had to take him like it found him" (59). This passage is about the mule, which I think is a symbol in this book, that was found dead under the big tree. I definitely think that trees are a symbol in this book, but usually they are positive things that happen under/near it. This time, the mule that Joe bought from the man and then mistreated was found dead under the big tree. The personification of "Death" shows the culture of this town, and how they think of things. It seems odd that this mule would die under the tree, which I think usually symbolizes love, because a death occurred under it. I think this is foreshadowing a future death (Joe's) and may also serve as a representation of a death of Janie's love for Joe.
Hilary- When you reference the quote that says, "They, the men were saving with the mind what they lost with the eye", I think that this quote alludes more to the fantasies enveloping the minds of the men who ogle over her. Just looking at her didn't create that fantasy-that was the mind's job, and this obviously supports the ongoing argument that Janie is attractive, besides the fact that she was played by Halle Berry in the film production. Just saying.
I thought a really interesting topic was the discussion between the people of Eatonville when Jody first begins as mayer, and the shift in tone towards him as his term progresses. At the beginning, he is hailed as somewhat of a white black man, if you will, with his confident demeanor and affluent appearance and composure. He is definitive in his actions, and his cavalier personality is what at first draws the people to him-he is a charismatic leader, who, through order and obedience, wishes to create a better town. But as time develops, the attitude changes, as is blatantly displayed on pages 48-50. The townspeople are starting to recognize his dictator-like attitude as a weakness, and especially and an aspect that turns the people away from him subtly.
"One day she noticed that Joe didn't sit down. He just stood in front of a chair and fell in it. That made her look at him all over. Joe wasn't so young as he used to be. There was already something dead about him. He didn't rear back in his knees any longer. He squatted over his ankles when he walked. That stillness at the back of his neck. His prosperous-looking belly that used to thrust out so pugnaciously and intimidate folks, sagged like a load suspended form his loins. It didn't seem to be a part of him anymore. Eyes a little absent too" (77). This quote is an example of an inner-outer landscape. Janie is realizing that Joe has grown old and almost looks partly dead. She also realizes later on that he really is ugly inside. He is bothering her about the way that she looked and how old she was (at 35) and that she needed to be worrying about what she looked like. She realizes that Joe is trying to take her eyes off of his age and ugliness. His inner-outer landscape is ugly! Janie realizes that she is out of love with him. "...sagged like a load suspended form his loins" (77). This part of the quote is showing what his stomach looks like in a very descriptive simile because Janie realizes how horrible this man is. She describes him as ugly and fat as he truly is. The part about him looking almost dead is also the effect of foreshadowing the death of Joe.
I think that whether or not Janie is attractive may be irrelevant when it comes to Tea Cake's feelings about her and his age. Obviously, from all of the description about the way they met, it was something similar to what love at first sight is supposed to be. It seemed like from the moment he walked into the store the entire pace of the book changed and became a lot more light-hearted than the dreariness that had proceeded it, concerning Jody dying, and his funeral and all. I think that he is in love with her, not her hair, or her looks. Those are just added bonuses. Proof of this: though he does mention her hair, saying that it is "lak underneath uh dove's wing next to my face" (103) - which could also have significance in that it seems her hair is some sort of symbol of her freedom, so he enjoys that, he also mentions her eyes and not something more physical like the way men described her in the beginning of the book "The men noticed her firm buttocks like she had grape fruits in her hip pockets; the great rope of black hair swinging to her waist and unraveling in the wind like a plume; then her pugnacious breasts trying to bore holes in her shirt" (2). And then of course in the end he says that "Nobody else on earth kin hold uh candle tuh you, baby. You got de keys to de kingdom"(109), which seems a lot like saying he fell for her and has no control over it, that's just the way it is.
That entire paragraph is full of figurative language though, not just those short sentences. What I thought was most interesting was the fact that the veil was blocking the outside world from her, and it made me wonder if Janie just did not want to deal with it all, or she had already moved on. Then it goes on to say "She sent her face to Joe's funeral, and herself went rollicking with the springtime across the world" (88). Later however it is obvious that Janie did mourn for Jody and was sad about his death when it's stated that "six months of wearing black passed…" (91). Also, the fact that she went "rollicking with the springtime" made me think about the tree metaphor and how the blooming that sort of signifies love only happens in the spring…obviously this is somewhere Janie likes to be. It could also be sort of foreshadowing that she is still open to love after Jody has died, or that a possibility is still there in the future (when Tea Cake comes along).
Sorry for the spelling errors in that last post. I thought another possible point for discussion was the differing opinions toward Janie and her own opinion of herself. Her life in Eaton is foreshadowed in the statement of her first husband, Logan Killicks, when he says, "Ah guess some low-lifed nigger is grinnin' in yo' face and lyin' tuh yuh. God damn yo' hide!" (32). We see the first instance of this possible detracting opinion of the narrator when the mayor abruptly halts any possiblity of his wife making a speech, informing the audience that, "Thank yuh fuh yo' compliments, but mah wife don't know nothin' bout no speech-makin'. Ah never married her for nothin' lak dat. She's uh woman and her place is in de home" (43). Already puttin down her abilities before he acknowledges her potential, Jody creates a blockade between himself and his wife, possibly making her question whether her move to go with him was the smartest choice. We soon see Janie's emotions on her own situation come out as a result: "A feeling of coldness and fear took hold of her. She felt far away from things and lonely" (46). We also see the role of the other people in the growing population come into play, influencing Janie's confused state even more. "Janie soon began to feel the impact of awe and envy against her sensibilities. The wife of the Mayor was not just another woman as she had supposed...She couldn't get but so close to most of them in spirit" (46). Confused with her role in the developing town, as the Mayor's wife, and as a young, attractive, intelligent black woman, Janie struggles to find her identity with her husband, the townspeople, and within herself.
Foreshadowing is the best, especially when you catch it and you're expecting something and then it happens, SO I wanted to point out that at the beginning of chapter 10 when Hezekiah asks off from work to go with his ball team, he "cautioned her about the catches on the windows and doors..." (94). It was obvious right away that something was going to happen with the windows and doors, why else would they be mentioned? Then Tea Cake comes along and Janie hits it off with him, and soon the store has to be closed up and who closes the windows? Tea Cake! "Ah figgured you needed somebody tuh help yuh shut up de place" and "He was closing and bolting windows all the time he talked" (98). This is probably the author's way of trying to show that all the circumstances were right for Tea Cake to show up - Janie needed help closing up the store, and Hezekiah (who apparently mimicked Jody in a lot of ways) was out. It was supposed to happen and it did perfectly from how well they got along.
When Janie meets Tea Cake the night of the baseball game, and he insists on her playing checkers with him - I think that entire part is full of hidden meanings. This may be stretching it far but... It's obvious from the start when Janie "found herself glowing inside" and the fact that "Somebody wanted her to play. Somebody thought it natural for her to play. That was even nice" (96), she was enjoying Tea Cake's company and her relationship with him was directly contrasting the relationship she had with Jody before, where all he did was shut her down and control her. Then, when the checkers game is being described: "He was jumping her king! She screamed in protest against losing the king she had such a hard time acquiring. Before she knew it she had grabbed his hand to stop him" (96). This made me think that her "king" was Jody (previously of course, before he died, and also it's ironic because the way she had to sort of bow down to him was a lot like someone's relationship with a king) and that the hard time she had acquiring him was of course referring to the way she had to leave her previous husband for Jody. "Ah got uh right tuh take it. You left it right in mah way." (He has a right, Jody is dead, he can take his place, and she agreed to play checkers after all.) Yeah, but Ah wuz lookin' off when you went and stuck yo' men right up next tuh mine. No fair!" (Tea Cake, this man who makes her feel important and is easy on her eyes came out of no where and surprised her.) "You ain't supposed to look off, Mis' Starks. It's de biggest part uh de game tuh watch out!" (96). (I think the game might be the game of love - she hadn't been looking for a while since Jody died and now it crept up on her. Tea Cake was definitely watching out though.) Then the fact that Tea Cake says "Ah'll come teach yuh some mo' another time" after "They scrambled and upset the board and laughed at that" (96) shows that they're going to take the relationship slowly (getting to know one another anyway) and by scrambling up the board it's showing that the past doesn't really matter anymore - and it was a mutual messing up of the game. It seems that the author showed this new relationship and meeting through a checkers game.
Totally agree with you that the tree is more parallel to her, not representing love . Great example of this - "She wasn't petal-open anymore with him. She was twenty-four and seven years married when she knew" (71). This is describing Janie and Jody's relationship, and obviously it describing her love for him like an open flower waiting to be pollinated or loved, and stating it is no longer open - she is no longer open to Jody or his love. This seems parallel to the tree and how it blooms in the springtime and has flowers.
Also supporting what I said about Joe and Janie's relationship fading and comparing to flowers above: "The bed was no longer a daisy-field for her and Joe to play in. It was a place where she went and laid down when she was sleep and tired" (71). Obviously, the flowers are significant symbols of Janie's love life and when they are gone the love is gone too.
I find that Janie is simply having trouble finding the right person to be with as a significant other. She feels like she can always do better than her current position, that the "grass is always greener". This feeling is epitomized on page one in the quote, "ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." This means that from a distance, the future always looks better than the present. This feeling results in her leaving her first husband, Logan, for Joe. Joe had a bright future ahead of him as he planned to "buy big" and to "be a big voice". Joe offered a better future for her and her "wish was on board". However, this too was nothing but a wish, as Joe became arrogant, dominating, and jealous of Janie's youth. Again, she desired more and now that Joe is dead, she is eager yet simultaneously reluctant to chase her "ship" again with Tea Cake.
Oops, (this is yates by the way, couldn't put my middle name for some reason) i forgot to put the page numbers after the quotes, they are as follows, in this order: 1 28
I believe that although Nanny (Janie's Grandmother) despised slavery and is glad to be out of slavery and its institutions, she is still hopelessly dependent on the attitudes of inferiority and failure that slavery produced among slaves. She still feels inferior to "white people" on page 19, in stating "Ah wouldn't marry nobody, though Ah could have uh heap uh times, cause Ah didn't want nobody mistreating mah baby. So Ah got with some good white people and come down here in West Florida to work and make de sun shine on both sides of de street for Leafy." She is basically saying that a white family in the South, the source of her mistreatment for her entire life, is a better chance at a good life than a black man for a husband. She is unwilling and afraid to establish a life for herself, where she is in servitude for herself rather than in servitude for whites. This attitude is the result of a lifetime of discrimination, so much so that she actually believes that blacks are incapable of producing a healthy environment for children in the way whites can.
She is turning to the white family to "put (Leafy) in school when it got so it was a school to put her in." She was perfectly capable of making a life for herself in a post-slavery world (granted it would not be one that a white could make in a racist America), but she is so indoctrinated with this belief that whites are smarter and more capable with blacks that she would just as rather continue serving whites for a living.
I had the same questions about that phenomenon. Do the citizens respect or fear him? Personally I believe that it is a combination of ignorance and laziness. The former slaves that live in Eatonville are (due to no fault of their own because of slavery) uneducated and without direction and motivation to pursue any goals they have had in their life. This is shown by the apathetic behavior of the townspeople on page 35. When asked if the townspeople of Eatonville have a mayor they respond "Youse uh mite too previous for dat...we ain't got none yit." and when asked who "tells them what to do" Hicks responds "Nobody. Everybody's grown. And then agin', Ah reckon us just ain't thought about it. Ah know Ah ain't." Its this lackluster behavior that is the root of their acceptance of Joe. These townspeople are so used to having a superior govern every aspect of their lives in slavery, that they have no idea what to do with freedom. They simply wait for things to work themselves out.
So, when a (at least modestly we can assume) educated man with initiative to succeed and the money to back it up assumes control of the town, the townspeople are easily overtaken by admiration and awe of Joe, a successful black man, something they are not used to seeing. I believe this phenomenon is a commentary on the struggle of the African-American community of the time of the author, a community without direction is a community that is susceptible to persuasion by those of ill-repute.
Carly Iulo- " 'What she doin coming back here in dem overhalls? Can't she find no dress to put on?-Where's dat blue satin dress she left here in?...'" (2) - I found this passage to be particularly effective in that Hurston uses a list of rhetorical questions to show not only the materialistic nature of the society that Jody lives in, but also how much appearance plays a role in the society as well. In the first chapter Hurston constantly plays with the idea of appearance vs reality, especially when Janie first returns back into the town in this quote. I thought listing the rhetorical questions one after another was a good way to introduce the society because this quote is taken right from the beginning of the book. I found it interesting how the women of the town were more concerned with the way that Janie looked rather than what she had been through or why she looked so disheveled-it showed how much appearance in valued over the individual.
I had the same question in my mind about her happiness being tied to her marriage. However, i believe that by the end of this section she is learning that her "first dream is dead, so Janie became a woman" (pg. 25). This is shown by her reluctance to accept Tea Cake's affections on page 109 in the quote "Well all right...no false pretense wid me!" She is trying to avoid the previous events of disappointment with Joe and Logan by avoiding running away from her problems through Tea Cake. She must learn to be happy with what she has first before she can love someone. She attempts to persuade Tea Cake away from her and tries to resist his charms in stating "don't get mad...all right wid me." on the same page. She is learning that her happiness is tied to her marriages and is compensating for this realization.
I also found it interesting how Janie is constantly treated like more of a doll than like a human being. A perfect example would be how her first marriage was arranged for her by her grandmother because the man she was marrying had a lot of land. I also found another reference on page 9 that I thought supported the idea that Janie is more of a doll to everyone around her rather than a human being: “Mis’ Washburn useter dress me up in all de clothes her gran’chillun didn’t need no mo’ which still quz better’n whut de rest uh de colored chillun had. And then she useter put hair ribbon on mah head fuh me tuh wear.” Word choice and diction is crucial in this passage as well because it is the way in which Hurston phrases the passage that make Janie seem doll like. By using phrases such as “dress me up,” she makes it seem like Janie is more of a possession than a human being. I also thought it was important to note that even as Janie gets older (because this quote was referencing when she was a lot younger), she is still treated like a child and like a possession by her family, friends etc.
More tree imagery! There are two references to trees and roots when talking about Nanny... so. First reference, "Nanny's head and face looked like the standing roots of some old tree that had been torn away by storm." (12) Mrs. Sturgis said something about a tree and a hurricane (haven't gotten to this in our section, but I guess it happens?) so this might foreshadow this. Also, the word root is funny because her hair is gray, so the roots are literally gray (old like the storm-ridden tree... so this ties to you, too, Brenna!). Then, on page 16, the Nanny says "You know, honey, us colored folks is branches without roots and that makes things come round in queer ways." Once again, there is a reference to the Old Woman and roots, but this time, there is also a reference to life in that it says "makes things come round in queer ways." So, I definitely agree with everybody who said the tree could be a symbol for life, but I also think that it could be a symbol for wisdom (like the color gray).
Just a short comment-did anyone else find it interesting that Hurston choice the name "Tea Cake" for a man? I mean it seems like a rather unmanly name. It's actually quite feminine and I found it interesting that Hurston would choose to name a man Tea Cake. I thought that perhaps she did this to portray a softer side for males? Both Logan and Joe didn't exactly treat Janie in an idyllic way so I thought it was significant that the next man that walks into her life is named Tea Cake. Anybody have an opinion about why Hurston did that?
Matt- to answer your question about Janie, I definitely think she is meant to be attractive. Going back to my first quote about the whole idea of "appearance vs reality" I think the fact that Janie is beautiful even at and older age makes the other women in the town quite jealous which is why they tear her apart in the very beginning when she walks back in town. I thought that perhaps her hair was symbolic of her innocence in a way because that was the one thing that nobody else had any control over-I can't find the exact page but I remember a group of men even talking about how they weren't "allowed" to touch it? The idea of her hair could also be an allusion to the Bible about the story of Samson...to make the story short he has somewhat "super strength" which he claims is due to his hair. Eventually his lover Deliah comes and cuts his hair off and he becomes a prisoner to the Philistines.
Okay, so defending my idea about the pear tree being what she loved. I will agree that she does not love the pear tree, however looking back at the previous chapter I saw this quote: "The vision of Logan Killicks was descrating the pear tree, but janie didn't know how to tell nanny that."(14) Now looking at the two quotes I feel that the pear tree in this context represents or is symbolic of her idea of love. Logan Killicks is disrupting her image of the idea of love which is represented by the pear tree. I feel like this becomes parallel to flower imagery in the later chapters with both the quotes that Anna mentioned from Chapter 6. I agree that those represent her love. I think that these flowers are mentioned at these times because it relates back to her idea of love. The flower is closed because this is not exactly what she had pictured. The bed is no longer what she imagined it to be.
Did anyone believe that the beginning of the book was really effective at setting up the book? The first two paragraphs already start with a huge theme. This quote sets up the idea of genders contrasting but also creates a connection between them as they both act accordingly to fulfill their needs in love and life but those needs greatly contrast, their is an incredibly journey to search for that need that fulfills their lives. But women are portrayed in this passage as going for their dreams while men will not reach their dreams as she says they are watchers whose enemy is time as it passes and they watch their dreams slip away. I also thought this passage kind gave way into the characterization of Janie as it kind of sets up her future events as she goes against normal gender expectations in order to seek self fulfillment as she sees men in a way that "normal" women of that society do not see.
Carly- I was thinking that! It's so weird that he's like the young stud that Janie falls for and his name is Tea Cake? I agree with you that his slightly feminine name was supposed to be a contrast against the two other loves, but I also saw it as a reference to his age. He's Janie's younger man and people thought that he was with Janie for the money so he's kinda like a baby (this is such a stretch). That's how I saw it at least... To an outsider, it would seem that Tea Cake is like Janie's young man candy (really well said, I know...sorry), so it could be ironic in that he's not just her younger man, she actually loves him.
This probably has absolutely no significance and is a waste of precious blog space, but I found a passage that reminded me a lot of the mob mentality of the Testimonies in Handmaid's Tale... on page 61-62, during the strange swamp scene with the mule, there's the part where "he" (I'm guessing this is the Parson) is questioning the chorus about the mule and it goes like... "'What killed this man?' The chorus answered, 'Bare, bare fat.' 'What killed this man?' 'Bare, bare fat.'..." I thought the chorus chiming in was like the "Teach her a lesson!" "It's her fault" at the Red Center... But anyway, there's a lot of white imagery in this whole entire section. Which makes me wonder, what does it represent in this situation? First, there's a mention to a "white-headed leader" and later, there's mention of "bleaching bones". Taking a stab, I think the references to the white could be references to heaven, only because, right before the white references (page 60), there's mention of a "mule-heaven", but I honestly don't know... Any thoughts?
Anna, The checkers thing... I agree with you that it's a contrast between Jody and her and Tea Cake and her (I saw this the most in "Somebody wanted her to play. Somebody thought it natural for her to play" as these lines are complimentary of Janie and are kind - or "sweet as that" as Janie would say 97- like Tea Cake rather than controlling like Jody) I also agree that the tone is very playful, showing Janie's fondness for Tea Cake. This was best shown by the part where the two of them are flirtatiously exchanging words about playing and Tea Cake teaching her to play better and she says "Jody useter tell me Ah never would learn. It wuz too heavy fuh mah brains" so that's a pretty direct comparison between the two.
Maddie Way- I didn't think about that! It does kind of sound like a pet name of some sort which could be another reason why she chose to name him Tea Cake. I forgot to think about the fact that they were so far apart in age...
I have to agree with Yates about Nanny's inferiority being translated from her time as a slave into now. But I think that her motives are pure for Janie despite the perception that she may be keeping Janie from true love. As Yates mentioned Nanny says: "Ah wouldn't marry nobody, though Ah could have uh heap uh times, cause Ah didn't want nobody mistreating mah baby." Throughout her life Nanny was mistreated and her only desire is for Janie to have a better life and not one of maltreatment. It is the idea that parents always want their kids to have a better life than they had so I agree with a Yates totally that she sees her race as inferior and does not trust her race as much as the white people but I believe she sees Janie's only way to living a better life is if she sacrifices the idealized love Janie searches for in search of security. There are double are motivations and motives behind Nanny's discussion with Janie and her disapproval of her search for love. Anyone else agree?
This is Tessa on Maddie's blog, sorry if it's confusing.
I definitely agree with anyone who has paralleled Janie's freedom and her hair so far (I think Hilary posted about that). She was forced to tie her hair up in the handkerchief whenever she was working because Jody was so afraid of other men looking at her in a sexual way, so he had her hide it, and it seemed like it was the icing on the cake of her unhappiness. She seemed to become empty after 20 years of keeping her hair "under wraps", and it was good that she was able to let it down once Jody died. This could show that she can only meet men when she is "free," because she met Jody while she was with Nathan, and he didn't seem to care about her hair. She never met anyone else while with Jody, but after his death she met Tea Cake and was once again free to fall in love. Hiding her hair almost sucked the happiness from her life. After Jody's death, it says that the only thing that really changed was her letting her braid down, but she seemed much more light-hearted just by doing that. So basically, it seems to me that Janie's hair represents her freedom.
I also wanted to add another quote about Janie's hair that I found... "Before she slept that night she burnt up every one of her head rags and went about the house next morning with her hair in one thick braid swinging well below her waist. That was the only changep oeple saw in her" (89). Anybody else find if significant that the only noticeable difference was her hair? Again going back to the idea of her hair being an allusion to Samson and his hair, I thought that Janie's hair could be representative of her own strength? Not necessarily physical strength like Samson but perhaps emotional and mental strength...?
I don't know if anyone else noticed this, but it seems to me that Janie is only happy when with a man. I was thinking about this while I wrote that comment above this one and although letting down her hair made her happier, after Jody died on page 89: "Most of the day she was at the store, but at night she was there in the big house and sometimes it creaked and cried all night under the weight of lonesomeness." This seems to show that Janie is incredibly lonely without Jody, which is somewhat ironic because she was so fed up with Jody by the time he was basically on his last breath and was convinced she would be much better off without him, but as it turns out, she is just incredibly lonely. Also, she left Logan Killicks for Jody, so there was no time for her to be independent there either. This could be a product of the time, too, because during this time period women weren't usually unmarried or single, so it's possible that she just was taught that she couldn't be alone. However, it almost seems to me that she is incapable of being alone. She really hasn't had a chance to be alone (that we've seen), but her love life seems to be very busy, and even though she wasted 17 years with Jody, she still was with him and didn't have an empty bed.
Carly--that is funny, we both posted about Janie's hair, though you said her hair represented her strength. I can see this because she almost comes alive after Jody's death, which is ironic, because she can't live while he is living, in a very abstract sense, because of how much he wore her down. Her hair could definitely emphasize her mental strength because of her ability to be strong after Jody died, but it seems to me that she became strong right before he died (with their confrontation that had been boiling for so long) and her hair was still wrapped up at this point. I can definitely see how she became stronger once he died, because he had been so oppressive, and her hair was let down at this point. Therefore, because her hair was seen for the first time in 20 or so years AFTER Jody died, I think her hair would better represent her freedom.
Maddie- I was also confused by the mule death scene, which occurs from page 60 to 62. However, I think that what you're talking about could parallel to the "lesson/rape" part with Janine in The Handmaid's Tale, it is a chorus of buzzards that are chanting about the corpse of the mule, not just a chorus of people, haha. This scene is quite odd though, and I'm not sure whether or not it is symbolic, though I have a good feeling it is.
What I DO think is interesting and worth noting is from page 58. Jody has just set the mule free by buying it from Matt Bonner for 5 dollars, and Janie makes a speech about it, using allusions to Abraham Lincoln and somewhat leaving the people in awe. When Hambo tells Jody his wife is a "born orator," he "says nothing." This is significant because this shows that Janie having any brain power makes him uncomfortable. It is also ironic that he would set the mule free for a small price but keeps his wife imprisoned for their whole marriage. I know that is a bad comparison because a mule is a mule and Janie is a person, but it kind of shows how sexist and oppressive Jody is.
So if anyone has thoughts about the mule scene, please share?
Thanks for the clarification. Totally didn't get the whole buzzard thing.. but that kinnnnda makes more sense now. I thought it was really weird that there was a chorus there... but now the white-headed leader makes more sense, too. And I feel dumb...
I thought that Janie's argument with Jody as he is dying represents a gender reversal and also ties back to the theme introduced in the beginning of women reaching beyond the horizon as men just reach but never achieve their dreams. Janie points out to Jody that he was a power hungry and controlled her, it is his fault that she could not express her emotions and therefore could not show sympathy for him as he was dying. Janie tells Jody, "Naw, Jody, it wasn't because Ah didn't have no sympathy. Ah had uh lavish uh dat. AH just didn't never git no chance tuh use none of it. You wouldn't let me." After this moment Jody truly realizes the darkness in the way he treated Janie and it began to eat him inside he begs Janie to not tell him. Ah got tuh die, and Ah ain't used tuh thinkin' 'bout it" (86). Her strength exposes his weakness and shows that the truth can shine itself through all. This scene reminds me of Hamlet as he reveals his strength to his mother and she is forced to face the truth and that it ate her inside and the truth set Getrude and Hamlet free similar to Jaine and even Jody as he dies realizing his faults. The truth reveals the weakness and strengths in all.
“She was stretched on her back beneath the pear tree soaking in the alto chant of the visiting bees, the gold of the sun and the panting breath of the breeze when the inaudible voice of it all came to her. She saw a dust-bearing bee sink into the sanctum of a bloom, the thousand sister-calyxes arch to meet the love embrace and the ecstatic shiver of the tree from root to tiniest branch creaming in every blossom and frothing with delight. So this was a marriage!” (pg 11) This example of ironic imagery shows how Janie perceives marriage. It is interesting to note that most of the imagery and comparison is to nature, which makes it seem as if nature is telling her to get married. Also the idea of being at peace with nature comes up in this passage. The repeated reference to the bees makes them seem very significant (I think that they could possibly be symbolic of Janie in some respects, in that they both work very hard and are under appreciated, as well as mal-treated for all that they do). It is also interesting to note that she begins this paragraph with very strong imagery about nature and then at the end says that it is a marriage. This periodic paragraph (if there is such a thing) is very important to note, because it is showing that nature is what shows us how to have “successful” marriages.
“On the train the next day, Joe didn’t make any speeches with rhymes to her, but he bought her the best things the butcher had, like apples and a glass lantern full of candies.” (34) The first thing that is interesting about this quote is that it begins in italics (in fact every chapter’s first line, thus far, has been written in italics). This is important, because it automatically makes the sentence stand out (and from what I can see, the first line basically states what is going to happen in the chapter/in the rest of the book). This is so significant, because it is foreshadowing what is to happen of their marriage. Joe does not want to make her happy (with love), but he wants to make her financially happy. This obsession with money and greed continues throughout the book and is in many reasons why the marriage fails (before Joe dies).
“So when the bread didn’t rise and the fish wasn’t quite done at the bone, and the rice was scorched, he slapped Janie until she had a ringing sound in her ears and told her about brains before he stalked back to the store.” (72) This quote seems a bit ironic to me. In the beginning, Janie left her first husband to be with Joe because he swept her off of her feet (with romance). But now, the true Joe is beginning to emerge; the Joe that is obsessed with making a profit, and will sacrifice anything to do so. It is very interesting that in the beginning, Joe was this romantic figure, who “saved” Janie from her marriage. She ran away with him in a very fairy-tale-eqsue manner. Thus this is a bit ironic that she ran away with him in order to chase her “happily ever after”, when in this scene, he is being portrayed as the direct opposite of a “prince charming”: a barbarian.
“She got nothing from Jody except what money could buy, and she was giving away what she didn’t value.” (76) This quote directly parallels the quote that I spoke of earlier from page 34. This shows that all Jody gave her was what money could buy (no emotional gifts of any sort). Its very interesting to note that at this point in the book, she is no longer calling him Joe, but now Jody. This change in name seems to be symbolic of a change in character. Joe is the man whom Janie ran away with in the beginning of the book, a mysterious romantic man who was taking her with him on his journey to Florida, where, Jody on the other hand(the man whom Joe has transformed into) is a harsh man who only cares about money. The name imagery in this passage creates and supports the idea that Joe has changed overtime throughout their marriage.
“Then too she noticed how baggy Joe was getting all over. Like bags hanging from an ironing board.” (81) This quote is very important as well as the name quote which I just mentioned, because similarly to the previous quote, this one shows a sort of transformation as well. This however, is a physical transformation to show how he has changed. This sort of physical transformation shows how he has changed for the worst. It is interesting how after he dies, she looks in the mirror and sees herself as not older, but as a wiser version of her younger self. So it seems that Jody and Janie are in some ways foils (at least physically), as he aged very horridly, and she just grew “more ripe”.
Tessa- About the whole mule vs. Janie situation, I thought that it was interesting if you look back a few pages to when the author is describing the mules and first bringing them into the book. She mentions that that is what the men talk about on the porch of the store and they tease each other. Also around this same time, the author includes that when Janie was asked to make speech, Jody cuts her off, whether she would have wanted to or not, he says that she won't. I think that this is interesting becuase it sets up the situation for what you are talking about and for what is to come later on in the book. I think that this part sets the stage for the change in character for Janie from the person who did as they were told and thought they knew what they wanted to the one who now goes out and gets what she wants to herself. In a way she becomes a woman of action through this.
I like Carly's concept of Tea Cake being a feminine name and I agree that it is meant to show a softer side to the male race. Tea cake seems to be the foil of Jody as he restricts Janie's emotions and restricts Janie from reaching past her horizon (her dreams and search for self-fulfillment). While in contrast Tea Cake makes Janie feel the joy and laughter that she needs and wants. Tea Cake loves her for who she is inside not what others love her for. He is the kind of guy that will not restrict Janie because he truly loves her loves to please her and allow her to reach her dreams. Jody and Tea Cake represent the two extremes and their effects on Janie's goals and dreams portray what society wants versus the naturalness and beauty of true love
Sam- To go along with what you said about the quote on page 34 when they are on the train, I think it is interesting to compare this sentence description of Janie and Jody's marriage to what she had with Logan Killicks. During the point in the book when the sentence you mentionded is from, Janie is overally happy and excited about her new marriage and was fed up with Logan (hence why she left him). But what I find interesting is that later on we find out that perhaps she really was or could have been happy with Logan because he treated her as a person instead of as someone that needed to be taken care of and looked after all of the time. At the time this is what Janie thinks she wants, but then realizes that that was not the case.
I looked at the comments and I'm pretty sure nobody mentioned this, but in response to the Janine vs Mule idea being tossed around, I noticed on page 19 and 20, Janine's Nanny is talking to her, and she says "De nigger woman is duh mule uh de world so fur as Ah can see" (19-20). So I think it's important to keep this in mind when pointing out the constant mentioning of the mules and how she sets the mule free. Maybe when he buys the Mule it is a metaphor for how he controls Janine as well. Also it might show that how he treats Janine may be what he feels is best for her.
"It was bad enough for white people, but when one of your own color could be so different it put you on a wonder. It was like seeing your sister turn into a 'gator. A familiar strangeness. You keep seeing your sister in the 'gator and the 'gator in your sister and you'd rather not." First of all, I just really liked this quote from page 48, but I also think that is significant in this book. This sentence is describing the power and authority that Jody was earning around town. Some liked it and some didn't. However, I find this simile so interesting because well for starters sisters don't actually turn into 'gators, which leads the audience to believe that a man of color earning this much respect is unheard of, which I guess to a sense it is in this book. Then the short oxymoron of a sentence, "A familiar strangeness." makes it seem as though this does happen, but not often. I think that this ties into the rest of the book in the sense that perhaps Janie's whole situation is a familiar strangeness, in the sense of knowing what she wants and who she is. I am not really sure where I am going with this, but this part seemed to be important and profound in some way and that is how I have interpreted it so far.
Chris - I like the idea of Jody and Tea Cake being foils, but I also noticed that Jody is a feminine name as well (at least to me). Maybe the author is setting them up as parallels as well as foils? I think this helps to support your argument, because I also agree that they are both the two extremes, and the parallel name idea would help the reader to make the connection
Chris- I agree with what you had to say about the strength that Janie gets as Jody is dying which highlights his own weaknesses and I also thought that your comparison of this to Hamlet was really great! I would have never thought of that! But I do not think that this is the first time Janie has shown strength. I think that when she obeyed her grandma and married Logan took a lot of strength and I also think that when her grandmother died it took a lot of strength because it appears that she was now left with Logan and no one else in her life. But I also think that it took a lot of strength for her to leave Logan and go off with Jody, but at the same time, leaving Logan so quickly could be seen as a sign of weakness. Was she leaving because she really wanted to be with Jody or becuase she really did not want to be with Logan? Logan treated her as a real person whereas Jody primarily gives her things and expects her to stand there for the most part. Even when Jody asks Janie to watch over the store for a bit, she has trouble with this request; does she not want any responsibilities? Later when Jody dies, it seems that she gains some self knowledge, but would she change what she had done had she known then what she knows now?
Brandon T- I agree with what you last said about the pear tree and later the flowers, but could they perhaps both be symbolic of her idea of love, but then as her idea of love changes so does the way it is portrayed? In the beginning with the image of Logan descrating the pear tree she has a childish idea of love, but as the story goes on, she changes in her ideas of love and comes to her own realizations and perhaps as this continues and her ideas of love grom and mature the image and symbols of it do as well. I don't really know, I'm just throwing this out there.
Another thing I found interesting was the several mentioning of gossip as the forming of public opinion and therefore it seeks to inhibit the striving of one's dreams. In the beginning she mentions the ladies gossiping when Janie returns as they believe that she was left by a man for money and someone younger they speculate about Janie and thus tries to inhibit the truth, it is false fulfillment. It also comes up again with Jody's death as the women believe that Janie poisoned him for revenge but this is not true and this depicts Janie in a negative light. It is gossip and some men that inhibit Janie's journey for truth and love. But the main example of this is when Tea Cake falls in love with Janie the women say that he is low and not good enough for her, Janie says that she does not feel Tea Cake in a romantic manner but the irony is that Tea Cake represents the exact man she is looking for, one that can provide her with the natural love and appreciation for her inner and outer beauty, he allows her to reach her dreams but the gossip may have affected her perception of her and Tea cake's relationship. So sad :(
Anna- i agree with what you said about the checkers game being a metaphor for Janie's relationship with Jody because this man is coming into her life and taking her focus off of her dead husband. Also, on page 101, Janie said "They played away the evening again. Everybody was surprised at Janie playing checkers but they liked it. Three of four stood behind her and coached her moves and generally made merry with her in a restrained way." I think this continues the metaphor to say that some people are behind Janie's relationship with Tea Cake. They like seeing her with Tea Cake, like they like seeing her play checkers. But this line only states that a few people are behind her decision, which could foreshadow that there are many others that do not agree with this new relationship. Also, I think that Janie likes to play checkers herself. She actually sounds happy for the first time in the book and its all thanks to Tea Cake.
O Laura I agree with your comment on mine I just wanted to clarify I was merely saying that she was losing her strength and that she was regaining it through this gender reversal because he had long oppressed her but revealing the truth to him shows her reemerging inner strength. I do agree that the moment you were talking about shows her strength. I was merely discussing that scene sorry for the confusion
I thought that one symbol, which Janie seemed to refer to quite often, is the pear tree. I feel like the tree symbolizes her idealized version of love. She's sitting under it right before she kisses Johnny Taylor for the first (and last) time, and she references it when she's talking to her grandmother about how she doesn't love her husband. A pear tree is a very beautiful image: it blossoms in the spring with lots of beautiful flowers, it smells nice and is nice to look at, and then it bears fruit that can be enjoyed many different ways. And then it repeats the cycle. While it sounds beautiful, it's such a superficial thing to use to talk about love. The flowers only last for a little while, and the fruit runs out eventually. Sometimes a tree will never blossom and bear fruit at all. Jamie seems like she thinks that the pear tree is the epitome of a perfect marriage, but how could it be?
I don't know if anyone has said this, and there are currently 71 posts
Sorry if someone has already mentioned this, but to go along with the whole hair conversation, I think it is interesting to note that when Janie and Jody first go to Eatonville, Janie's hair is what the men notice the most, which I found to be ironic in a sense. If her hair is symbolic of her freedom, then is her freedom or bravery what is attracting these men? After Hicks has tried to "woo" Janie he says this to Coker who questioned his skills with the women, "Tain't nothin' to her 'ceptin' dat long hair"(38). This makes me think that maybe her hair does not symbolize her freedom but something else...I'm just not sure what.
Too many post and can't tell if anyone said this but I find it interesting the idea of that tree I know Brenna, Trave, and others mentioned this but I find it interesting how while Janie is observing the bee and the flower and how this represents what Jaine is searching for as true love. The union of the bee to the flower kind of seems like her perfect romance. The harmony of these elements of nature reveal also her desire for this true love and that in order to fulfill herself and reach somewhat of a self-actualization level she needs this romance where there is beauty, harmony, and a union that is both physical and emotional.
Claire- I was just about to say something about the checker game but I will just say something really quickly. Could it also be that the people who are behind her and supporting her playing checkers are the ones who are behind her in general, not just in her relationship with Tea Cake? I see the game of checkers as almost like a new chapter in her life, almost like a second chance sort of thing and I think that these people could be the ones who care enough about her to help her out through this, but I don't know, that's just what I thought.
Page 88: “ Then again the gold and red and purple, the gloat and glamour of the secret orders, each with its insinuations of power and glory indreamed of by the uninitiated.” This quote describes the colors that surrounded Jody’s funeral. These colors are typically used to describe a king. In Janie’s opinion, who knows if she thought he was king, they fought a lot during their marriage and Jody controlled most of the aspects of Janie’s life. But in the eyes of the town of Eatonville, Jody was king because he stepped up and became the mayor. Jody was praised during his life and even after because he was a smooth talker and he knew what he wanted. Everyone seemed to have a better life with Jody in Eatonville because more people moved to the newly developing town, and he built a store. Also, Jody thought of himself as being better than the people in the town so in a way, he put himself up on a platform to be praised and viewed.
One part that I found really interesting was that on page 45 Jody says "Folkses, de sun is goin' down. De Sun-maker brings it up in de mornin', and de Sun-maker sends it tuh bed at night." While I was reading this passage I was thinking about the title and how it is talking about God, and yet, here, in this passage it doesn't sound like they believe in any type of God. This also reminded me of the passage where Coker and Hicks were debating whether burning your hand on a stove was caution or natural because it goes back to the idea of whether or not there is a God and the fact that he might possibly have created the world and decided how humans were made and what they thought. On page 48 it says "So when speaking stood up when the occasion demanded and said "Our beloved Mayor," it was one of those statements that everybody says but nobody actually believes like "God is everywhere." I feel as though this quote is parallel to the title of this book because Janie is comparing her husband of the time, Jody, to God and the fact that God is everywhere, so everybody can see him, and all of their eyes are watching God (because he is everywhere they are).
I know it has been mentioned before, but I just wanted to comment on the change of tone of the townspeople from when Jody and Janie first came to the town and then how it was a couple months later. They originally thought of him as a savior for coming to their town and making something out of it by building the store and the post office and by spreading the word and now they feel as though he is the devil. "Yeah, but non us all dis you see and you'se settin' on wasn't here neither, when he come. Give de devil his due." page 49. This too is a reference to God ( the savior) and the devil (good vs. evil).
On page 68,towards the bottom, I found the writing style to be very interesting because the author turns it more into a script by having the name of the speaker, a colon, and then their quote, such as... Dave: "Well all right, less prove dis thing right now. We'll prove right now who love dis gal de best. How much time is you willin' tuh make fuh Daisy?" I honestly have no idea why exactly the author decided to do this because she only does it for about 4 lines and then before and after it she uses normal dialect such as "Dave said," and yet there is nothing different about what is being said. Any thoughts about this?
On page 75, "Sometimes God gits familiar wid us womenfols to and talks His inside business. He told me how suprised He was 'bout y'all turning out so smart after Him makin' yuh different; and how surprised y'all is goin' tuh be if you ever find out you don't know half as much 'bout us as you think you do. It's so easy to make yo'self out God almighty when you ain't got nuthin' tuh strain against but women and chickens." I found this quote really interesting because it is a huge part in the character development of Janie. Even though she is seen as a strong women, this is one of the first times where she puts herself into the conversation of the towns citizens who sit on the store's porch and gives her complete opinion and input. And then after having taken a big step forward, she is pushed right back into her supposed "place" by the men. -Colleen
Corey - I like what you said about Jody and Janie being foils, because as I was reading it I noticed the fact that they called him Jody, and that it was a feminine name. I also believe that they are both very strong characters inside, it's just that Jody was more open about his and active with his thoughts while Janie might have thought of leaving and standing up for herself, yet she never did it to the effect that it made a difference.
Chris, I like what you had to say about the gossip. I think you are right about how they sort of depict her in a negative light. They think she looks foolish at the beginning for falling for a younger man and returning, so it appears like he just tricked her. The people also think that she did poison Jody, which is another negative thing that they see in her. I think these examples are shown to teach a lesson about gossip, and I sort of think that that is what the whole book is about--not being so quick to judge and spread rumors, because they aren't always the truth.
I thought that the way the townspeople acted about Joe and what they seemed to think about him was interesting. They almost worship him in the beginning as a savior and seems to be elevated above the level of a person and to an almost demigod-like state, which seems to go to his head and gives him a slight god complex. What I think is so funny about it is that the townspeople are just kinda like "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" because he built up the town to what it has become, but then they're also unhappy because of the way he acts and treats them. They feel like he thinks he's better than them, and they even say that he's acting like a white man rather than the black man he is. Sam Watson says on page 49 that they have to "Give the devil his due" which shows that they appreciate everything he's done, even if it is grudgingly. I just wonder why they put up with him after he started getting all mean, especially Janie. He told her what to do all of the time, and what to say and how to act. It says that part of it was because he was jealous of the other men and how they wanted Janie as their own wife, but I can't help but thing that it was also about the power he held over her. He got her to leave her husband for him and he just maniuplates her more and more.
Page 21: “Did marriage end the cosmic loneliness of the unmated? Did marriage compel love like the sun the day?” I think this is Janie’s first impression of what love is supposed to be because she is so young and she does not know any better. From this she believes that love comes from marriage, not marriage comes from love. I almost do not think she believes this herself because before this she thinks about finding someone that she just knows is the right one, but her Nanny is forcing her to marry Logan Killicks. I think this is just a sense of comforting herself so that she will marry Logan because she feels she will find love. A few pages later she realizes that her marriage to Logan is not making love. page 25: “She knew now that marriage did not make love.” She is upset here because she thought it would come naturally to just love her husband once they were together, but it is not easy at all. She does not love Logan because this marriage is not what she thought it would be. I think this foreshadows that she will never be happy until she finds love before she gets marriage. In a way Jody was what she thought was love because she chose him, but that did not work the way she wanted. Once again she is choosing Tea Cakes, so maybe it will work to her advantage.
Colleen, I like what you had to point out about the 'sun-maker'. In christianity we know that it is God who created the universe, and said "let there be light" which refers to the sun, our light source. I like how you thought about how the book is called "Their Eyes Were Watching God" but saw that they referenced to a 'sun-maker' instead of God. You would think that they would reference something more toward Christianity, but they don't and i do think that it is odd.
Claire - I thought your observation about the colors at Joe's funeral being the colors associated with royalty was really good. I didn't notice it, but they do seem to me to be colors that are associated with kings. However, I don't quite agree with what you said about the people of Eatonville viewing him as a king. I think that they sorta resented him because he was so successful and made all of his money off of them and used them and made them do everything while he delegated, but they kept him around because he improved the town so much. He almost had this sort of facade at first when he almost just impressed the people into making him mayor, and then the superiority he felt came out and he made the others dislike and resent him.
In a book in which Janies is trying to find her identity there comes a symbol that can show her individuality, her hair. Her hair can represent her defiance to the norm, it can represent something that crosses gender lines and gender rules, and it can also represent a symbold of whiteness. I also found a major play on irony on page 39 is states "Us talks bout de white man keepin' us down! Shucks! He don't have tuh. Us keeps oursleves down. I found this ironic becuase Janie is out to find her individuality and freedom but her own black race is hoilding themsleves down and they admit it too.
I'm sure the mule has been talked about already, but I just wanted to say somethign about it anyways. I was really confused as to why they were going on about the mule originally. However, when I got to page 56, when everyone except Janie is trying to catch the mule, I decided that the mule was a symbol for Janie and how she felt on the inside. They commented a couple pages before that about how the owner of the mule, Matt, was starving it and not giving it as much food as he said they were because the mule was so skinny. Of course, Janie isn't being starved physically, but mentally and emotionally she is. She isn't allowed to do anything or say anything or even really think anything that Joe doesn't approve of. Janie says, while muttering to herself about how they're trying to catch the mule, that the mule has been "worked tuh death", which reminded me of her. Janie doesn't actually have any actual physical labor that she has to do and is nowhere near her actual death, but she's pretty much dead inside. Her relationship with Joe is already dead, she's unhappy, and she's fallen out of love.
Anthony - I didn't think about her hair being a symbol of her individuality, but I agree with you now that I'm thinking about it. Her hair is what really sets her apart from every other person in the town, and even in the book. All of the women are jealous of it, and all of the men love it and want to touch it (which makes Joe jealous). I thought it was interesting, however, that Joe's jealousy of the men's love of her hair is one of the main reasons that he controls her so tightly and takes away her individuality that is so engrained in her.
Samantha- I agree with you about what you said about Jody not being the true prince-charming. I noticed that she made the choice to run off with Jody because his appearance seemed better than Logan's. She thought she would be able to find true love by someone coming along to save her from what she thought was a bad marriage. I guess karma came around and got her because the man that she thought was perfect for her turned out to just want her as a trophy. Jody reminded me a Torvald because he only wanted Janie for himself like when he made her tie up her hair at the store because the men were looking at it. page 55: "That night he ordered Janie to tie up her hair around the store...She was there in the store for him to look at, not those others." Janie is like Nora i guess then because she does not stand up for herself for a while until she was pushed too far.
I have to agree with Colleenon the fact that Janie was pushed back to the men stance and this goes along with the fact that the own black race keeps their people back like said on apage 39 they want tio advance but they hold themselves back so they do not make a scene
Sooo - the time is up for the first half - the second half is to be commented upon on Sunday night and Monday night - if you feel that you did not comment enough in the first half - do more in the second half. ALSO - read the posts - even if there are 71 or 100 of them.... because the point is to comment on the others' thoughts - if you just repeat what someone has already said - the point value goes down! I am loving the insights that you are having - and I am VERY happy that many of you are commenting on her style and her figurative language - it is stunning! Also it shows me that you do know how to do this well - even though the oral commentaries may have made you nervous enough to forget it!! I am also loving that you are building on each others' ideas - keep up the good work!!
I didnt see anyone who commented about the image of the sea or ship imagery. I found this to be one of the major symbols. "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board. For some they come in with the tide. For others they sail forever on the horizon, never out of sight, never landing until the Watcher turns his eyes away in resignation, his dreams mocked to death by Time. That is the life of men." This opens the book in a paragraph by itself. This is important to note because later in the book she makes many comparisons with women's lives and men's lives that seems to be a motif in the book. Also the ships represent the journey of janie and of other characters in the book.
commenting on matt and hilary's comments about janie's attractiveness i found something on page 70 that also goes along with the symbol of the ships. "She was a wind on the ocean. She moved men, but the helm determined the port. Now, this night she mounted the steps and the men noticed her until she passed inside the door." the comparison with janie and the ocean show how she is a free spirit but she is controlled by the men around her.
The porch is personified as a character in the book, "the porch laughed all togther" "The porch was boiling now." This is important to note because the porch represents the community and these men follow jody most of the time. It seems as if the porch is always watching an always a part of the major decisions of the town.
The Hurricane in the book represents all the hoirrible destruction in the world. Mother nature takes her wrath out on the human race through the hurricane. The hurrican makes people question themselves and one another causing a digression from human nature. The Hurrican represents the thing that destroys all that is sacred in the world. Outside forces out of human control effect humans such as Janie greatly. It is a foil to the pear tree and the horizon.
The quote "if you know what is good for you you will shut your mouth until somebody calls you up shows the anger that the black people take out on one another and tell them to be quite. The quote shows that the black people hold each other back not just the white man.
Anthony- I think that the quote is trying to show as you say the black holding each other back, but I think is more to show the time that the book is set in and the situation even though am not sure because I don't know were it is in the book. About the Hurricane. I think is a symbol of destruction, but i think there is more to it. As it being a symbol of the love that Tea Cake and Jaine and how it was un-distortable . That they really loved each other, it was not because Jaine was really pretty. But because Tea cake really love her. as he risks his live for her when the dog is trying to attack her 166pg. Te cake goes and safes her. I think that the dog maybe a bigger sing of destruction then the hurricane is. As the dog bite ends up being fatal for tea cake.
"They passed a dead man in a sitting position on a hummock entirely surrounded by wild animals and snakes. Common danger made common friends. Nothing sought to conquest over the other."164 I thought this was an interesting image because I see that Tea Cakes and Jaine's relationship the same way. that Jaine's life was dead until this wild animal(tea cake) came into it. and how in the relationship there is not conquest one over the other. even thought Tea Cake hurt Jaine once, they have an equal relationship unlike what she had before with the other men that she was with. This maybe a bit of a stretch thought.
Barbara-I found it interesting as well that Janie is so infatuated with Tea Cake even after he "hurt her." Unlike the other men in her life who she ran away from and disregarded after they treated her so poorly, there's something about Tea Cake that keeps her coming back. I think that his age may have something to do with it as well...while Janie isn't terribly old (I believe she is 40 or so?) Tea Cake is almost like her way of holding on to the past. I also found it interesting that she falls for a man who is so much younger than her because her first husband was a lot older than she was so I thought it was interesting to note the similarities between the two...just a thought though!
Kelly- I Totally agree with you the porch is personified as a person in the book, but is not only with Jody but also later with Tea cake. the porch seems to be their community around them."The house was full of people everynight. That is, all around the doorstep was full. Some were there to hear Tea cake pick the box; some came to talk and tell stories, but most of them came to get into what ever game was going on or mighth go on." As well it makes me think that how both Jody was the main person intown back were they were how tea cake is the main person in the muck. It seems as Jaine has been with men that are really importan and they balance out her powerfull personality of a free spirit.
Anthony- going off of your quote about how the black society is holding back the black society...it's interesting that you point that out because I thought about that too while I was reading the beginning of the book. The interesting thing about this novel is that it doesn't put much blame on the white society for oppressing the African Americans as many book that are written about that time period do...much of the fault lies in the "caddy behavior" towards each other. For example, in the first half of the book when Janie is walking into town, the women constantly question why she looks the way she does and why she looks so disheveled instead of lending a hand or asking if everything is alright. I really liked how this novel took a diffrent approach about the time period..it makes it stand out among other books of its kind.
Carly! I agree with you am not sure what keeps her so infatuaded with tea cake, and I agree it maybe the age difference, I also think that it may have to do with this would be the way for her to experience all this great fun that she could have had once if she had not being married so young, but i am not sure
i found it interesting how Tea Cake could beat Janie but Janie still love him and not be angry or upset with him because of that. i also found it interesting how on page 148 sop-de-bottom says "Ah love tuh whip uh tender woman lak Janie" this is intersting because the black men like sop-de-bottom wish to whip the young black women. this puts a spin on things from when all blacks were whipped by the whites. this could be because of Mrs. Turner and her white beliefs and how she is telling them to Janie, and how Tea Cake tries to show how he is in charge in the house
Anthony and Barbara, I agree with what you said about the Hurricane. I feel that it is a symbol for love and destruction. It shows love because of how Tea Cake save her. But it shows destruction because of the not only what it does to the outside world, but also because it brings along the dog that bites tea cake and kills him. It also shows the perserverance of Janie becuase she sticks through the hurricane and finds a way to survive.
I find Mrs. Turner ironic. She is black but she hates black people. Also it is ironic because she likes Janie even though she is black. Also it seems like not being like any black people is very important to her when she says "Look at me! Ah ain't got no flat nose and liver lips. Ah'm uh featured woman. Ah got white folks' features in mah face. Still and all Ah got tuh be lumped in wid all de rest. It ain't fair. Even if dey don't take us in wid de whites, dey oughta make us uh class tuh ourselves" (142). This shows that she does not want to be black. Also she talks like the other black people but she wants to be different.
the hurricane could also show how Janie struggles to find someone to love entirely and not just for specific things. granted she loved Tea Cake but there were things about him that weren't good, such as gambling, or the beatings, or him disappearing and then showing up randomly after taking Janie's money. the hurricane definitely represents a struggle in Janie's life
I found it really amusing how Hurston plays with the idea of gender role throughout the whole novel. Janie is obviously a fairly strong woman and I found it interesting how she and Tea Cake contrast each other. I think that at times Hurston even made Janie appear stronger (like the man in the relationship). I found this quote in chapter 14 that supports this idea..."And the thing that got everybody was the way Janie caught on. She got to the place she could shoot a hawk out of a pine tree and not tear him up. Shoot his head off. She got to be a better shot than Tea Cake" (131). After I read this the first thing I thought of was The Things They Carried and the story about MaryAnn going to Vietnam. Hunting and shooting guns is typically associated and thought of with men in mind and the fact that Janie eventually got better at it than Tea Cake seems to be a comment about gender roles in the society. I thought the syntax of the passage was pretty important too because Hurston uses short, concise sentences to get her point across. The two short sentences at the end of the passage really captivate and grab the reader's attention...AND one last idea that goes along with the question of gender roles in the society...his name alone is pretty unmanly (Tea Cake) so I thought that perhaps this was another way Hurston was able to subtly comment on the irony behind the patriarchal society...so I found it pretty significant that Tea Cake is almost more like the woman in the relationship than Janie is, yet he still insists on asserting his dominance. anyone else find any evidence on Janie being portrayed more like the dominant figure as opposed to Tea Cake?
i found it interesting how Janie married someone with less money than she did and knew about widows who were scammed out of their money. i find it interesting because in the books we have previously read the men are the money maker except in this one. i also found it interesting how Janie learned how to hunt and became a better hunter than Tea Cake did.
"Poor Joe Starks. Bet he turns over in his grave every day. Tea Cake and Janie gone hunting. Tea Cake and Janie gone fishing. Tea Cake and Janie gone to Orlando to the movies. Tea Cake and Janie gone to a dance. Tea Cake making flower beds in Janie's yard and seeding the garden for her" (110). This passage is in the first page of the second half, and it struck me as soon as I read it. The parallelism (isocolon?) in these sentences are important in showing the theme of appearance. Everyone in the town thinks that she is still "Mrs. Mayor Starks" but she really never was (emotionally). She appears to be an unfaithful woman, but she really just isn't happy. Her husband died almost a year ago, and she is with Tea Cake, and the townspeople think badly of her. This poor woman just wants happiness and to be loved, which she hasn't found in her past two relationships. I think she wants someone who will take care of her and love her as her grandmother did. She hasn't found that yet. I think this whole novel is Janie's journey in her life for love.
Brandon- I think what you said about Janie being the money maker also goes back to the idea of gender roles in this book like I said before. Men "usually" make the money, Janie is the moneymaker in this book...I don't know I think Hurston was commenting on typical gender generalizations, I could be wrong though
I also agree with Brandon about the hurricane. Except I believe that the hurricane that Tea Cake and Janie experience while in Jacksonville is more specific than a struggle in Janie's life. I think that the hurricane is symbolic of a struggle in their own marriage. It's almost just when they figure everything out and think everything is going to be okay, life throws them a hurricane to deal with. And then Tea Cake goes crazy. I think that the hurricane is definitely a struggle, that is agreed. But I think that the aggressive nature of the hurricane also shows that she can't find love, it seems, no matter where she looks or what is thrown at her.
Fallon- I thought the parallel structure was really striking as well. While I agree with you, I htink it's more than just showing the appearance. I also think that it shows a lot of jealousy on the part of the townspeople. I can just hear them saying it in a snarky, mocking tone. All of the guys in the town lust after her and all of the women are jealous of her looks, and so I think that the guys are jealous because Tea Cake has her and they don't, and the women are jealous because she's Janie and she evokes jealousy from all of the other women anyways.
Just wanted to point out another example of female dominance... "One day Tea Cake met Turner and his son on the street. He was a vanishing-looking kind of a man as if there used to be parts about him that struck out individually but noe he hand't a thing about himm that wasn't swindled and blurred...'Her husband can't do nothin' dat butt-headed woman. All you can do is treat her cold whenever she come round here" (144). After hearing what Mrs. Turner says about Tea Cake to Janie, Tea Cake decides he wants to talk to Mr. Turner but when he finds him he soon learns that the man is just an oppresed soul that has no control over his wife. Again, this was just another example of how typical gender roles are put into question in this novel. OH and I thought the word choice was pretty great too...I mean Tea Cake refers to Mrs. Turner as a, quote, "butt-headed woman." The word choice makes Tea Cake seem almost childish (saying butt head) and this plays into the fact that he is a lot younger than Janie is and is really still like a child...
"''Cause Tea Cake ain't no Jody Starks, and if he tried tuh be, it would be uh complete flommuck. But de minute Ah marries 'im everybody is gointuh be makin' comparisons. So us is goin' off somewhere and start all over in Tea Cake's way. 'Dis ain't no business proposition, and no race after property and titles. Dis is uh love game. Ah done live Grandma's way, now Ah means to live mine.'''(114). This passage means so much to the book! It basically underlines how Janie feels about her life and what she wants to do with it. "Dis is a love game" represents the entire novel! That's all she wants is love, someone to care for her the way her grandmother did. She says she is going to live the way she wants to now, not the way her grandmother wanted her to. This shows that she is searching for identity, that she thinks she will find in love. The syntax of this passage is also important in finding the themes and meanings. She states that everyone will make comparisons between Tea Cake and Jody, but the passage is written that way, so the readers are forced to compare the two. I also wanted to talk about the name of her future husband, Tea Cake. It is an interesting name for a man that Janie wants to marry. It seems so feminine and the author probably meant it to be. He runs away from Janie when they first move, and she feels so betrayed. He seems cowardly, so the name Tea Cake fits his delicate self.
I thought that the interaction between Janie and Pheoby in chapter 12 was really interesting. Pheoby seems to really care about Janie, and, although her husband is the one who told her to talk to Janie about Tea Cake and how he may be trying to get her money, I think that she tells Janie out of true concern for her rather than jealousy or because she just wants to find out what Janie and Tea Cake are up to. I also like how Janie says "Ah done lived Grandma's way, now Ah means tuh live mine" (114) and how she finally decides that she's going to live her life how she wants to and try to be happy. She doesn't seem to care about being able to sit around and do nothing all day. Pheoby even says that she'd "love tuh experience it for just one year" (114) yet Janie still doesn't care. Janie is almost reckless, not even listening to what Pheoby says, but she says that it's a chance she's willing to take.
Austin- There's a lot of irony centered around race and I completely agree with you that it is ironic that she hates black people (and is slightly angry/violent because of them... see page 152) and yet she is black. It kinda ties back to the very beginning of the novel when Janie is surprised that she is black. Perhaps this connection between the two characters and their dislike of (or in Janie's case, lack of knowledge about) their race presents a theme of identity (since nobody has really discussed identities yet...).
I'm just going to keep on posting on the same thingy because it seems easier... Sorry. I'm being lazy... Continuing on on the racial-irony-division concept above, on page 185, there's an interesting passage that says " And twelve more white men had stopped whatever they were doing to listen and pass on what happened between Janie and Tea Cake Woods, and as to whether things were done right or not. That was funny too. Twelve strange men who didn't know a thing....They wore good clothes ad had the pinky color that comes of good food. They were nobody's poor white folks. What need had they (ITALICIZED) to leave their richness to come look on Janie in her overalls? But they didn't seem too made, Janie thought. It would be nice if she could make them (ITALICIZED) know how it was instead of those menfolks... They ought to let her go see about it...And none of them knew." So, there's a lot of "them" and "they" in this is passage and what I find most interesting is that two are italicized and the rest are not. I don't know why just these two as the whole passage has the same annoyed tone as the two lines with the italicized words, but it is ironic that Janie somewhat hates these white women and jurors much like Mrs. Turner hated the black people. This is another connection between Janie and Mrs. Turner and as I said before, Janie thought she was white earlier, so she is especially like Mrs. Turner in that she dislikes people who are of her own (well, what she thought was her own when she was a child and who she grew up with) race.
I definitely agree with your personification of the porch, and I agree with your interpretation of the quote from page 70 "She was a wind on the ocean. She moved men, but the helm determined the port. Now, this night she mounted the steps and the men noticed her until she passed inside the door." This is a great example of how women are expected to act inferior to men and it also ties with my next quote...
The first page of chapter 17 talks about Tea Cake's jealousy and how he then whips her to demonstrate the power he has over her:
"Before the week was over he had whipped Janie. Not because her behavior justified his jealousy, but it relieved that awful fear inside him. Being able to whip her reassured him in possession" (147).
I know their society is different from ours, but I find it appalling Tea Cake whips Janie to show ownership. This reinforces Janie's free spirit-ness and how the men have to be in control.
Paralleling Tea Cake and Janie's relationship, there is Mr. and Mrs. Turner relationship. I think Mrs. Turner likes to wear the pants in the relationship. She also thinks she is superior to black people, "Ah can't stand black niggers. Ah don't blame de white folks from hatin' 'em 'cause Ah can't stand 'em mahself. 'Nother thing, Ah hates tuh see folks lak me and you mixed up wid 'em. Us oughta class off" (141). She also tries to set Janie up with her brother. On page 152 is another example of Mrs. Turner's superiority over Mr. Turner and she yells at him "What kinda man is you..."
I am not quite sure of the significance of the parallel, but I thought I would point it out.
"Shucks! If dat's her notion she's barkin' up de wrong tree. Mah hands is full already" (143).
I know this is a common metaphor/saying, but I thought it was interesting the author added this in...when I first read this I kind of thought it was ironic because the tree symbol I took as deep symbol...and this overused saying it shallow...it also calls Mrs. Turner a dog, which she is for thinking she is superior and wears the pants in her relationship.
"But, don't care how firm your determination is, you can't keep turning round in one place like a horse grinding sugar cane. So Janie took to sitting over the room. Sit and look" (118). I thought this passage really paralleled what Janie's life has been like so far. It seems to me like all she's been doing is "turning around in one place like a horse grinding sugar cane", which is also a really good simile. All she seems to do is get married, try to make the marriage work, become unhappy, and then leave her husband, whether it be physically (Logan) or emotionally and also spiritually (Jody). She seems to be in danger of something similar happening again when this passage appears, where her marriage falls apart and she's no longer happy. At this point in the book all we know is that she and Tea Cake do eventually part ways, although we don't know the circumstances except for that he didn't steal her money and run off with someone else.
"But the fourth day after he came in the afternoon driving a battered car. Jumped out like a deer and made the gesture of trying it to a post on the store porch. Ready with his grin! She adored him and hated him at the same time. How could he mad her suffer so and then come grinning like that with that darling way he had? He pinched her arm as he walked inside the door" (108).
I really liked this quote because immediately after I read it, I thought this was what her first marriage was missing. This playfulness and romanticism. The simile the author uses..." like a deer and made the gesture of tying it to a post on the store porch" shows Tea Cakes playful nature and making a romantic gesture. (He got a car to take her to a picnic)
Carly- I also thought that the fact that Jamie sometimes steps into the role of the man was interesting. I thought it was a good way to show the dynamics of their relationship, and I think the fact that she was better at some things than Tea Cake was even helped contribute to some of the suspicion he feels towards her at the end of the book when he's dying. I think that he feels jealous of her because she's better at some things that he should be better at, especially hunting which is supposed to be a man's thing so he can provide for her. This jealous causes him to overcompensate and assert his physical dominance over her by beating her, even if he makes up for it afterwards. I also think that it's interesting how at the end he has a pistol, yet she has a rifle, which to me seems to symbolize how she actually did hold a position of power in their relationship that he could never match.
The event you pointed out was something that I had noticed as well. Janie (as you stated) has struck out for herself in her relationship with Tea Cake. She's not going to do things her grandmother's way anymore, and says so on page 114. I also noticed that later on, when she is being further judged even after they move to the Everglades by Mrs. Turner. On page 140, in reference to Tea Cake being married to Janie, Mrs. Turner stated "Tuh git hold of uh woman lak you. You got mo' nerve than me. Ah jus' couldn't see mahself to no black man. It's too many black folks already. We oudda lighten up the race." Turner, a black woman married to a black man, is criticizing another black woman for marrying a black man. This incredible hypocrisy is astounding to me, and brings up a whole new issue. The racism of slavery has penetrated so deep into black society, that by simply being a lighter shade of black, one is suddenly entitled to superior rights and opportunities than those of their counterparts. This is displayed further as she characterized Booker T. Washington's achievements as detrimental to African-Americans in saying "All he ever done was cut de monkey for white folks. So dey pomped him up. But you know what de old folks say 'de higher de monkey climbs de mo' he show his behind'" and "He was uh enemy to us. He wuz a white folks' (n-word, sorry i just can't bring myself to type it)." This is even MORE hypocritical, as she just went on an entire tirade as to how blacks with lighter skin were superior to those with darker skin. Now suddenly she feels some sort of loyalty to the African-American community? The author is trying to display the divisions in the black community after slavery, those trying to separate themselves from their identity as blacks, and also displaying the effects of the old saying "everyone has to have someone to look down on."
the hurricane is a symbol of destruction in the latter half of the book. I think that the hurricane represents how nature can bring destruction. it seemed to me like this was supposed to be a parallel to the pear tree. That was beautiful but the hurricane wasnt. not only was it the opposite symbol but i also think that it is an allusion to noah's ark. the relationship between jody and janie is represented with the two by two, that storm eventually led to the destruction of their relationship
I agree with you on Phoebe's genuine concern for the well being of Janie. If you look on page 111, Phoebe is incredibly reluctant to intervene in Janie's life in multiple statements. In one passage she states, "Dat's de way it looks. Still and all, she's her own woman. She oughta know by now whut she wants tuh do." and later characterizes the sentiments of some of the neighbors distaste for Janie's relationship with Tea Cake as "jealousy and malice" and that "some uh dem very mens wants tuh do whut dey claim deys skeered Tea Cake is doin'". This is further commentary on social hypocrisy by the author. This instance combined with the epic hypocrisy of Mrs. Turner that I mentioned earlier as well as the gossip and whisperings earlier in the novel all serve as a shining example of the crippling hypocrisy that our society suffers.
Hilary! I like that quote, too! It reminds me (this is sooo not IB, but...) Ten Things I Hate About You. It's playful and romantic and young, a definite contrast to Janie's previous marriages and in one of my earlier posts (the checkers one) I talked about how the relationship with Tea Cake is different because it is flirty and playful. I think this quote could be used to support that argument. In terms of syntax and lit devices, I like the comparison to the deer (simile!) and also the use of the exclamatory phrase "Ready with his grin!". Both show the love/hate/playfulness (like in Ten Things I Hate About You) and make the reader feel the sudden bursts of emotions Janie felt.
"So when he went out to the outhouse she rushed to see if the pistol was loaded. It was a six shooter and three of the chambers were full..." (182). I thought that it was significant to point out that the loaded gun that Tea Cake had contained three bullets...this reminded me of a few things: 1. 3 strikes and your out.... and 2. an allusion to the Holy Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Its intereting how there are three bullets in the gun because in theory it gave Tea Cake three different chances to kill Janie if the previous bullets missed. I thought that perhaps this could have been an allusion to the Holy Trinity because in the end, the fact that there were only three bullets in the gun saves Janie because she is able to set it so that the gun goes through the three empty chambers before it actually gets to the bullets...but I wasn't positive as to why Hurston would choose to only have three bullets in the gun...
Thankfully I only had to stay at work for an hour :) “He done taught me de maiden language all over. Wait till you see de new blue stain Tea Cake done picked out for me tuh stand up wid him in. High heel slippers, necklace, earrings , everything he wants tuh see me in. Some of dese mornin’s and it won’t be long, you goingtuh wake up callin’ me and Ah’ll be gone.” (115) This quote is directly showing a rebirth for Janie. In another part of the book, there is a passage which parallels this one, in which she speaks of her old life and how she did nothing but get engulfed by the walls, because Joe had not given her anything to do (outside of the store). She speaks this way about feeling young again (which references a later passage that I will write about on page 181). Thus in many ways, this can appear to be a re-birth for the narrator (in a slightly backwards way, as she is approaching old age). She talks of Tea Cake as being a new start for her. Being such a serious character in Janie’s life, it is slightly ironic that his name is Tea Cake, which is a somewhat childish name. However, at the same time, in many ways, Tea Cake brings life back to Janie after they get “married”.
“After a while there was somebody playing a guitar outside her door. Played it smart a while. It sounded lovely too. But it was sad to hear it feeling blue like Janie was.” (120) This is an ironic statement, because it is Tea Cake that is playing the guitar outside of her door. She is concerned with where Tea Cake is all day, to find out that he spent the whole day being charitable to the men and women that worked in the train yard. It is interesting to note the use of color imagery here, where blue is symbolic of sadness/disappointment (at this point, she believes that Tea Cake has stolen her money and left her.
“Sometimes Janie would think of the old days in the big white house and store and laugh to herself. What if Eastonville could see her now in her blue denim overalls and heavy shoes!” (134) This is the point in the novel, where we see a true, dramatic change in Janie. We see her for one, laughing at those in Eastonville, who previously had a bit of a voice in Janie’s life. In addition, we also see her in a more casual light (where before she was all dolled up in a dress and heels). This also relates to the idea of the re-birth mentioned on page 115).
“It is the stones for alters and the beginning of wisdom. Half gods are worshipped in wine and flowers. Real gods require blood.” (145) This quote is very interesting, it comes after Mrs. Tuner is talking to Janie about the black people in the world, and how it is there fault that racism exists, as well as that she cannot believe that Janie would get with a man “as black as” Tea Cake. This quote is very important, because it is Janie commenting sarcastically on the way that Mrs. Turner seems to “worship” the white people. Thus this creates a very ironic image, in that she is saying that “real gods” require blood. Which I believe is a reference to the racism and lynching which were going on during this time (which would imply that the white people are being worshiped as gods, creating a very satirical comment on society).
“Trucks lines with drag kept rolling in from the ‘Glades and other outlying parts, each with its load of twenty-five bodies. Some bodies fully dressed, some naked and some in all degrees of dishevelment. Some bodies with calm faces and satisfied hands. Some dead with fighting faces and eyes flung wide open in wonder. Death had found them watching, trying to see beyond seeing.” (170) This descriptive quote shows not only the extremity of the situation, but also the horrifying factor of it. The parallel structure is significant, because it hints at the idea that the bodies are repetitive (in that they never end, and seem to continue forever). The fact that there are different “kinds of bodies” (clothed ones, naked ones, etc.), shows that the hurricane killed whatever was in its path and did not look at race (as said at another point in the book, the men who were finding and burying the bodies even had some trouble distinguishing race). It is an interesting note that race is not one of the things that was noticed about the bodies. The last line of this quote is significant, because the eyes are a great symbol throughout this book (obviously) and are used here to show that these people were hoping for the future to be better (trying to see beyond the current tragedy to a better time).
“Thank yuh ma’am, but don’t say you’se ole. You’se uh lil girl baby all de time. God made it so you spent yo’ ole age first wid somebody else, and saved up yo’ young girl days to spend with me.” (181) This quote is from Tea Cake, speaking to Janie, when she is talking about growing old. This quote is showing a loss of time in many ways, and is in some respects foreshadowing the death of Tea Cake, because it is Tea Cake basically saying that no matter when it is (or what age they are), they are meant to be together. The idea that God made her old when she was young to be young with him when she was old is a paradoctical statement that is again referencing this idea of “no time” affecting the relationship of Janie and Tea Cake.
“And how he found Janie all bit in the arm, sitting on the floor and petting Tea Cake’s head when he got there.” (186) Although the image that the Doctor give s at Janie’s trial seems to be one of defending Janie (and on the surface it was), it is seeming to be a comment on Janie and Tea Cake’s death. The fact that she is petting his head, shows that the author is trying to make it seem as though Tea Cake is an animal (which would make the murder of him seem like less of a crime, since she did it to save him). It is very interesting that “petting” was the author’s word choice, because I feel that by using such terminology, she is really trying to portray to us the idea that it was really in tea Cake’s best interest to be killed (much like it would be in a dog with rabies best interest to put it down). I think in many ways, the author is trying to show the idea that Janie killed the beast inside of Tea Cake, not the man himself.
THIS IS KELLY pg 155 "Mornig came without motion. The winds, to the tiniest, lisping baby breath had left the earth. Even before the sun gave light, dead day was creeping from bush to bush watching man." i thought that this quote related well to angie's idea about the hurricane. this quote made me think of the clishe the calm before the storm. not only was it the literal calm before the storm of the hurricane but it also relates to the calm in the realtionship of tea cake and janie before the hurricane hits. i think you (angie) are on the right idea about how the hurricane and the pear tree are opposites of each other i didnt think of it like that! now that i think of that idea i am noticing in chapter 17 when janie is awaiting for the storm she kind of admires it the same way that she did with the pear tree in the beginning
Angie, I agree completely with what you said about the hurricane and the pear tree (in that they are contrasting symbols). I also saw the hurricane as the beginning of a change in Janie (it was what essentially caused the death of Tea Cake). However, I think that the storm led to the new path of Tea Cake and Janie's relationship (in that he got rabies and she killed him, yet they will always be together, which is paralleled by the calm after the storm), more so than the destruction of Janie and Joe's relationship.
Angie- Not sure if I completely agree with you. I can see the possible reference to Noah in that there are a bunch of animals that head east..."One or two at a time, then more. By the time the people left the fields the procession was constant. Snakes, rattlesnakes began to cross the quarters. The men killed a few, but they could not be missed from the crawling horde. People stayed indoors until daylight. Several times during the night Janie heard the snort of big animals like deer. Once the muted voice of a panther. Going east and east...A thousand buzzards held a flying meet and then went above the clouds and stayed" (155). To me, the buzzards seem more ominous and more of a symbol of destruction than the hurricane does. The buzzards were at the mule death (now that I know these are buzzards, not an actual chorus. Thanks Tessa...) which was obviously death/destruction and now they're foreshadowing the hurricane. I think that more than anything, the hurricane propels the novel's conflict. The hurricane triggers (no pun intended) the "mad dog" (183) like behaviors that lead (including him biting her arm on page 184. I thought this was good imagery and parallelism to the dog) to his subsequent shooting. I never make sense on these. Sorry, but I hope that made sense...
Brandon, Going off of what you said about her making more money than Tea Cake and becoming a better hunter, I think that it is making a comment on the role of the woman in this book in general (in that they are strong and often underestimated, as portrayed buy Janie's relationship with Joe)
Maddie, I know I'm commenting on a comment, but I do agree that the fleeing of the animal is more of a reference to Noah's Arc than the hurricane itself. I also got an image of Noah's arc when they found out about how Motor Boat escaped. It was almost savior-like (as in god had a hand in saving him from the flood). I realize that this is a slight stretch but it is what I thought of. I also got a hibernation image from this passage (on page 173) when he talks about the fact that he slept through the storm and was just floating on down the flood. Which also creates a sense of irony that he was safe just sleeping, when Tea Cake and Janie were almost killed by running away (which in the grand scheme of things caused Tea Cake’s deth).
I found it ironic that Janie and Tea Cake plan to move to the Everglades to start their new life together, however it goes by the name of "the muck." It doesn't sound like a positive place where you would want to begin your new life. The muck has such a negative connotation, bringing about thoughts of dirtiness, a trap, and something that when you get caught in it, it would keep you from escaping. The irony of the title of the Everglades adds to the sudden fulcrum in chapters 13 and 14, where Janie and Tea Cake's relationship is starting to head down the wrong tracks. We begin to see Tea Cake's character paralleling that of Joe Stark's character, the oppressive male dominator.
Another irony I found was in chapter 16, with Mrs. Turner who disliked people of her own race. "Her disfavorite subject was negroes." (140) It is crazy to think that a black woman during the time shortly after the conclusion of the Civil war (which was fought mainly over slavery and territory) would be critical of the people of her own oppressed race. One would think that she would be critical of the whites for oppressing her and her family. She says, "It's too many black folks already. We oughta lighten up de race."(140) This woman brings a little humor to the situation because noone would expect her to be criticizing people of her own race of being "too black." She sarcastically says that they ought to "lighten up," which is also a pun.
Sam, I definitely agree with you about the hibernation image. That was also the first thing that popped into my head when he said he slept through the storm. It's a crazy concept because it seems pretty difficult to sleep through a flood while you are floating downstream, which is very similar to how an animal can sleep for an entire season without food or water.
So to start off with what I found most interesting about the second half of the book... By the way I'd like to say that this book is probably my favorite that we've read all year - I really loved it. The vernacular might have been a bit tedious to read but it was great, and honestly I think it was all of the figurative language. :) The entire metaphor of the lake being a monster that carried on through several pages (and basically all the way through Chapter 18, which I guess makes it a conceit) was one of the most figurative things - I thought. "It woke up old Okechobee and the monster began to roll in his bed. Began to roll and complain like a peevish world on a grumble…The people felt uncomfortable but safe because there were the seawalls to chain the senseless monster in his bed" (158). Then later when the hurricane made landfall… "The monstropolous beast had left his bed. The two hundred miles an hour wind had loosed his chains…The sea was walking the earth with a heavy heel" (161-162). "…and the pursuing waters growled and shouted ahead, "Yes, Ah'm comin'!" (162). "But it came muttering and grumbling onward like a tired mammoth just the same" (163). I think that the author's purpose in creating a monster to represent the hurricane and even personifying it to the point where it actually spoke was to make the entire fiasco more relatable. Those who haven't ever experienced a hurricane would probably not be able to imagine the strong winds, rain and damage caused - but imagining a monster has the same effect (the power, sounds, etc). As for what the hurricane represents - I'm not exactly sure but I'm reading other people's comments and considering what they're saying...and it seems plausible that it is the new path of Tea Cake and Janie's relationship. However I do think it's interesting (and maybe a bit cliché) that like Samantha said, the hurricane caused Tea Cake's death (with the dog and all) after the moment when Motor Boat, Janie, and Tea Cake were all huddled in their shack of a house and she says: "We been tuhgether two years. If you kin see de light at daybreak, you don't keer if you die at dusk. It’s so many people never seen de light at all. Ah wuz fumblin' round and God opened de door" (159). Basically telling Tea Cake exactly how she feels (which he responded to in an oh wow I never knew that's how you really felt about me way…hence they had a "moment"…setting the perfect stage for his death (or hers - but of course we know the ending from the beginning).
Sam, I definitely agree with you when you were talking about the hibernation. As he was describing that, it was also the first thing that popped into my head. This also alludes to Noah's Arc from the old testiment because (i believe) the animals on the arc slept while the flood was occurring. It's also crazy to think that he could sleep through a flood while he is floating downstream, and it's similar to how crazy it is that an animal can sleep for an entire season without food or water and survive.
After reading your comment, I hadn't noticed it in the book, but what you had to say about Mrs. Turner reminded me of Janie beginning her story in the first chapter. She begins by talking about how she grew up with a bunch of white people, so she just assumed she was white, too, but when she found out she wasn't she was amazed and sort of in denial.
This got me thinking that maybe it is sort of the same concept, and that this woman is in a sort of denial about her own race. Eventually Janie realizes she is black and accepts it, but this woman is probably the opposite of Janie, who is more proud of her race.
To comment on Brenna's post anyone find it interesting that the negative depiction of the Everglades as Janie says at the end of Chapter 13: "Whut's de muck, and where is it at?" (128). This negative depiction is ironic because despite the fact that male dominance by tea cake represents what Janie fights against but this time of male submission actually leads to greater things as the Everglades represents an incredible experience and moment in her life in the Everglades as she learns how to learns how to do new things like shoot a gun and hunt for food actually increasing her independence not necessarily from Tea Cake but more the ability to depend on herself and not whoever she was with like she had done with Jody, and others to give herself some form of security. So overall I think that it is good that a place depicted so cacophonously is actually an area of enlightenment and growth.
I think the hypocrisy of Mrs. Turner serves as a social commentary on the state of the Black community in the time of the 1930s (and to a certain extent today). The racism and hatred of the institution of slavery has caused an incredibly noticeable standard of economic and social success in the black community in the fact that when a black man or woman is educated, successful, or socially respected, they are considered being a "white folks [n-word]". This would be the modern equivalent to "acting white". Mrs. Turner characterizes this in her description of Booker T. Washington as a "white folks' [n-word]" on page 142. She speaks as if she is accusing Washington for a crime in his success, as if he is selling out the black community for his success. This is hypocritical since she hates blacks so much and does all she can to distance herself from them, and beating them down like on the same page when she says "Colored folks don't know nothin' bout no business!" This is a depressing commentary on a very serious problem. Cultural stereotypes have prohibited blacks from making great accomplishments in academia and business as those areas are considered "white", and as such any black man or woman seen being successful in those areas is seen as "acting white". Race should not play this huge role in society, and I think the author is attempting to display that to the reader.
Also in chapters 18 and 19, it is quite ironic and sad that Tea Cake risked his life to save hers during the flood, and yet Janie had to kill him (even though it was for his own good.) Tea cake was the one who seemed to be the least committed to making their relationship work, and yet in the end, the people think Janie is the crazy one who killed her husband out of rage. The roles of the two characters were switched. Nevertheless, Janie learned what true love was and she really loved Tea cake. In the end, she discovered how to be content, fulfilled her Nanny's wishes and learned how to love.
THIS IS KELLY- to brenna and jenny. i think both of your comments make a lot of sense and i think that something that you could add that would help with your argument would be janie's hair. i think that is a symbol of how she is strong and her masculinity. (don't hate me if thats spelled wrong mrs sturgis its late) i think that when her hair is down and mrs turner is obsessed with it! it represents her straightness and willingness to go along with the rules when it is in a braid she is constantly being hassled by jody who she has a power struggle with
There were some instances in the book where the narrator seemed to be saying something that Janie would say (or I guess was thinking) and did so without quotations. "But oh God, don't let Tea Cake be off somewhere hurt and Ah not know nothing about it. And God, please suh, don’t let him love nobody else but me. Maybe Ah'm is uh fool Lawd, lak dey say, but Lawd, Ah been so lonesome, and Ah been waitin', Jesus. Ah done waited a long time" (120). I'm not exactly sure why the author chose to do this so I'd like to hear what you guys think??? But I'll take a stab at it… My best guess is that it was an easier way to reach the reader, and perhaps in a way managed to emphasize what was being said about Tea Cake more than it could have been if Janie had simply stated it. This way, it was obvious that she was more worried about Tea Cake than the money he took - which of course showed how much she really loves him. (Another example of this... "Please, Jesus, don't let them…Tea Cake wouldn't harm a fly" (126).)
Sam- I agree with what you said about Angie’s post. I too saw the hurricane as the beginning of a change in Janie, and also saw it as a parallel to the calm after the storm. Life before the storm seemed fine, yet there wasn’t that peacefulness between Tea Cake and Janie that there should have been and yet, after the storm (and Tea Cake’s death) you can sense almost the relief that Janie now had a bit more freedom.
One thing I also noticed - not only in the second part of the book but throughout it - were the rapid tone changes and how well they were accomplished through mostly syntax and diction. For example, in the beginning of the novel, the chapter when Janie meets Tea Cake for the first time (I believe I may have mentioned this before in a previous comment) it is in direct contrast to the gloomy feeling before (mostly because of Joe's death). In the second half of the novel, there were a few instances where a tone changed occurred. One was at the beginning of Chapter 13 when Tea Cake disappears with Janie's money. Starting with "That morning Tea Cake got up earlier than Janie did" (117) the tone immediately changes to a more serious one, coupled along with shorter more (for lack of a better word) definite statements, contrasting the tone of the previous paragraphs where the sentences were longer and provoked entirely different feelings out of the reader (like awwwwws), such as "And there was Tea Cake in the big old station in a new blue suit and straw hat, hauling her off to a preacher's house first thing…They staged at home and rested that night, but the next night they went to a show and ager that they rode around on the trolley cars and sort of looked things over for themselves" (116-117). It's kind of hard to describe exactly how the tone change is accomplished but...I tried.
Anna - I actually noticed that as well, and at first I saw it almost as Janie thoughts because when she was praying that nothing bad had happened to Tea Cake (in the quote that you used) she was all by herself, and those were most likely the thoughts that she was thinking. This led me to question the narration of the book, because at times I feel as though it is Janie and at other times the author who is narrating. I think this is just the type of style that the author uses and it allows the author to become closer to the character and make them see more real.
Well to start off I actually agree somewhat with Anna even though the dialect kind of was tedious this book was actually good I like the plot and the message. I wanted to actually comment on a post I did for earlier in the book when I said that Janie submitted to gossip and allowed it to fuel decisions and how she lived her life and her legacy/image. But in Chapter 14 there is a reversal as she says: "She was sorry for her friends back there and the scornful others" (134). Now tea Cake has created a growth in Janie as she once listened to gossip and fear her image if she were to be with tea cake as he was younger and lower class and therefore she hid her true feelings and emotions towards Tea Cake. But now being away in the Everglades away from them has caused Janie to see into the real pleasures of life. Janie has changed her priorities and has shown personal growth through the going against societal pressures that caused her to hide her truth self, the truth is finally released
Brenna- I also found it ironic that Mrs. Turner was so negative and against the black race, yet, I got the feeling that Mrs. Turner was a mix. (One parent was white and the other black) because during those times it wasn't that common due to slavery and the idea of a mistress. I believe that is why Mrs. Turner is confiding with Janie, because they are similar in that respect. That might be completely wrong, but that was the impression I got while reading that section.
I found a part in chapter 14 where in the everglades Janie is thinking about and reminsicing on the the time that she spent in Eatonville. While she is in the everglades and liking life alot better than her time spent in Eatonville she finds her voice her in the everglades. I thought it was interesting here how the author tied these two major themes of the novel, nature and finding her voice/ the power of words here. This may have been done in order to greater emphasize Janie's happiness with whom and where she is living at this point in time.
Relating to Austin's first post...I think Austin was the only person that I saw that mentioned the power of words. I definitely agree that the dialect is an extremely important part of this novel but also her structure, word choice, diction etc... Words seem to appear as both a symbol and also a theme of the novel. In regards to the one of themes of the novel being the power of words, it is becomes apparent when Jody is on his death bed dying and Janie refuses to be silence and as she scolds Jody, he dies. This portrays Janie words of having the power to kill and demonstrates how strong and powerful words are in this novel. Her words here can also be view as a symbol because in a way since her words are present when Jody dies, words can be symbolic of a weapon. This further could foreshadow the death of her second husband being killed by a real weapon. This transition from a words being Janie's weapon at the time to a real gun could symbolize Janie finding her voice (the transition to something intangible to concrete) I also believe that this particular event in the novel could be a fulcrum to where Janie beings to find her voice within herself.
I am sorry if someone has mentioned this already and I missed it, but I found it ironic the choice of names that the author chose throughout this book for specific characters. Some of the characters in particular that stood out to me were Mrs. Turner who prefers the white people yet she herself is black which is ironic in the sense of sort of turning on your heritage I guess you could say. Another name that I found interesting was Who Flung the younger man that the widow from Eatonville had a fling with who ended up robbing her. This was ironic to me because in a sense the name is a question and I think of the word flung as similar to the word flee (I might have made that up but it could be- the past tense of flee is flung instead of fled?) I don't know but that is what it made me think of. Anyways these names prove to be important methods of characterization throughout the story. As was mentioned earlier the significance and irony of the names Janie and Jody and Tea Cake as well.
Old Post (1st half) “Reckless words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing.” (Proverbs 12: 18 NIV) Jody’s words to Janie are reckless, as well as demeaning to women. In Chapter 5 he states, …”but mah wife don’t know nothin’ bout no speech-makin’. Ah never married her for nothin’ lak dat. She’s a woman and her place is in de home.” This statement cuts Janie to the bone, and shows the truth of the Biblical quotation from Proverbs regarding reckless words. Jody’s words were not only thoughtless but also probably broke what was left of their marriage. It is interesting to note that Jody was referring to “speech” in his reckless comment about Janie. We see the emphasis Hurston puts on words (speech) throughout the novel. Jody’s attitude towards women further confirms Nanny’s previous guidance to Janie when she said “So de white man throw down de load and tell the n----- man tuh pick it up. He pick it up …” Here is where Granny explains the order of the world to Janie.
As a counter to Samuel’s post about Nanny…I don’t necessarily think that Nanny feels inferior to the white people: she has simply, through years of experience, learned what reality is and how to play the game. She is a very wise woman--not necessarily inferior. Her greatest wisdom concerns the reality of marriage—the need for marriage. On page 12, she says: “Yeah, Janie youse got yo’ womanhood on yuh. So Ah mout ez well tell yuh whut ah been savin up for uh spell. Ah wants to see you married right away.” Hurston describes the woman as follows: “Nanny’s head and face looked like the standing roots of some old tree that had been torn away by a storm. Foundation of ancient power that no longer mattered.” Her power may not have mattered, but her wisdom did.
Chris - I agree with what you said about Janie and giving in to pressure. I feel as though, growing up, her grandma instilled in her the idea that to be successful and happy was to be able to sit on your porch without a care in the world. After experiencing that, she rebelled a little, and I feel as though each time she lost someone, she found someone new to follow and to obey. She always seemed to be following someones orders, whether she liked them or not, and once she was at the muck, even though she still listened to Tea Cake, her ideals began to change a little because she was now a working women just like everyone else and she wore overalls instead of pretty blue dresses. I feel as though this contradicts the "strong" girl that everone seems to see in Janie, because even though she is strong and independent, she isn't. That is an idea that had me torn while I was reading this book because at times Janie stood up for herself and at others she would let others boss her around and tell her what to do, as if her opinion didn't matter.
Brenna - Though I totally agree about the irony concerning Janie killing Tea Cake after he saved her life, I disagree with you about Tea Cake being the one who was the least committed to making their relationship work…if you're saying what I think you are haha. It seemed to me that Tea Cake was the one who started the whole relationship - he is the one who pursued her - he is the one who came back time and time again to the store, she never went looking for him. I do realize that at one point in the book, Tea Cake says "Janie is wherever AH wants tuh be" (148), which makes it seem like she is following him around, but when Janie sort of confesses her true feelings for Tea Cake (as if they weren't obvious)... "We been tuhgether two years. If you kin see de light at daybreak, you don't keer if you die at dusk. It’s so many people never seen de light at all. Ah wuz fumblin' round and God opened de door" (159), the fact that she says she was "fumblin' round" - basically not looking for love or a relationship for that matter - and "God opened the door" - Tea Cake walked into her life and brought her love - shows that he was the one who was committed to and pursued her…I think anyway…
I find it interesting that Tea Cake succumbs to societal to create almost a personality disorder where he has multiple personalities that hide his true self which he reveals right after he hurts, embarrasses, or ridicules Janie. As it says on page 147: "Before the week was over he had whipped Janie. Not because her behavior justified his jealousy, but it relieved that awful fear inside of him." The societal norm of a male during that time was one that was strong and in control and when Janie goes against this manhood and begins to talk to Mrs. Turner's brother than he fears that not only will this man take his Janie but also will make the society see him as weak and not in control so he creates this alternate personality of aggression and anger in order to create a societal facade when afterwards he reveals his true self and nature when he apologizes and begs for forgiveness. This is his tragic flaw, his overwhelming obsession with the perception of himself in society.
“She was borned in slavery time when folks, dat is black folks, didn’t sit down… Ah done nearly languished to death up there.” (114). I found this quote to be very interesting because of several things. The first thing that I see is the way the author compares the black/white race and how their lives are completely different. I think that this is very important to acknowledge because to me this is one of the few profound places in the novel, where the author shows the difference among the two social classes. Another reason I chose to talk about this sentence is because of the figurative language used by the author. In this sentence the author talks about the black ladies being able to sit around in the porch. By sitting down, the author makes a comment on being able to become of a different social class. I think that by making use of this symbol, the author really explains to the readers what she is talking about.
To go along with what seems to be the overall consensus of the book, I liked how the story almost went full circle. In the beginning Janie was told what she wanted (Logan) then when she realized that that is not what she wanted she found someone else (Jody) and ran off with him, then when he died, she found someone else whom she loved (Tea Cake), who she then had to kill in order to save her own life. I find this whole circle to be ironic and interesting, particularly in the way that she moved from man to man. She was forced to marry Logan, but then she ran off with a man who she did not end up loving at all. She thought she did at first, but she then realizes that he just wanted her to look pretty basically. This is the complete opposite of what she had with Logan. After Jody dies, "she liked being londesome for a change. This freedom feeling was fine" (90). I then find it ironic that the way she loses the one she truly loves is because she had to kill him. This set up reminded me of the poem "Nothing Gold Can Stay". I know that seems random... Anyways I also thought that the fact that there were three main men in her life could be significant in some way. Possibly not in the biblical sense, but perhaps in the "third times a charm" sort of way. This would have been familiar for the audience, but also predictable in a sense, however the author is able to make her point as well as catch the audience off guard when Janie is forced to kill Tea Cake.
To comment on Laura's post I believe that when she initially is in a relationship with Logan and later Jody that her motives were merely based on the desire of security and the words of her grandma haunting her constantly. But the relationship with Tea Cake differs because her motives for submissing to hime is her love for him. This goes back to the tree and bee/flower imagery of the perfect union in nature as they intermingle and create a beautiful harmonious relationship which is exactly what JAnie is in search for so whenever she submits to Tea cake it is not out of fear it is out of love something different than relationships of her past as they were based on money but it can't buy u happiness like love and this proves the power love as it can conquer all passions and desires.
First I would like to agree with Anna about the lake scene during the hurricane. In my opinion the monsterous lake was a respresentative of Janie’s life and all of the ups and downs that she has had to face through out her life. The horrific tide and fast paced currents, as well as the dark colors, symbolized how quickly things could turn ugly and how she could easily be faced with a darker fate. “-water full of things living and dead. Things that didn’t belong in water.” (165) Also I find it ironic that she held onto a cow for safety. When I think of a cow I picture a big animal that remains stationary and yet is taken for granted, much like Janie. Through out the novel she is overlooked for her mental capabilities and she is just seen as a beauty or by her old age. However, she is the one that saves people and manages to keep them afloat so its ironic that she would latch on to the cow while a dog would be attacking her; a dog that was just along for the ride, much like some of her past husbands. Another hugely important scene in my opinion is the burial scene after the hurricane has subsided and the ment are having to help bury all of the dead from the storm. The first striking matter is the orders for all the white people to be buried with coffins and in a better manner than the blacks. Instead the black people are expected to be buried in a dark hole and to have some lime spread over them. “Examine every last one of em and find out if they’s white or black…Don’t dump no white folks in de hole jus so.” (170-171) Despite Tea Cakes objections, similar to those of a naive child, of trying to prove that it doesn’t matter what race a person is because they are all going to the same place for judgement and the race wont affect that outcome.
Finally I want to comment on what Samantha said about Janie killing the beast inside of Tea Cake and not the actual man. For her to kill him took a lot out of Janie and she did it in not as much of his best interests but to protect herself. The love that they shared was enough for her to share to the court when she miraculously was found not guilty. Even more so was the fact that the jury was all men and all white, while all her old black friends turned against her. Overall I think Janie stuggled with the decision she had chosen to make but in the end she did not have a choice and she acted upon what she thought was the best tactic, despite losing the man she loved most.
“Dem wuzn’t no high muckty mucks. Dem wuz railroad hands and dey womenfolks… ‘Taint mah notion tuh drag you down wid me.” (124) The reason I chose to talk about this quote is because just like on page 114, Hurston brings up the theme of the “differences among the social classes”. I know this theme is found throughout the whole novel just because it is set in the period right after slavery was abolished. However, I find it very interesting that the author talks about the difference of social classes among the black people. This quote also leads me to my question about Tea Cake and Janie. I know that their relationship and love withstands much criticism and they seem to be madly in love with one another, but at this point does Tea Cake really not want to take Janie because he thinks she deserves better, or could there be other feelings involved.
"No expensive veils and robes for Janie this time. She went on in her overalls. She was too busy feeling grief to dress like grief" (189). I found this quote at the end of Chapter 19 to be really interesting because it is a direct comparison to Jody's funeral. For Jody's funeral she was all dressed up, yet she did not feel that much grief. I took this comment as almost a demeaning comment for Jody- almost a stab in the back sort of thing. It could also have to do with the fact that she shot him, but also she put Tea Cake out of his misery if he was going to die anyways. This comment can also be applied to the financial aspect as well as the feelings Janie had towards the men. This quote symbolizes that Janie did not need the money to be in love with a man, which took her a while to find out, but eventually she was able to find herself and come to this realization. This quote is a very powerful one and no doubt significant in the author's attempt to prove the differences between the latter two of Janie's husbands.
Does anyone else believe that Phoeby is the truth teller of this story as she seems like the only person throughout the story who does not give into societal pressures too much and instead sees past the gossip into the real soul of a person sorry this is continous throughout the book I believe it starts in the beginning and she is later interjected abruptly in the middle therefore it seems that due to her to her ability to see into the real Jaine and is the loyal friend to her even when the women in society ridicule her because of her ability to see the truth through all the lies, a quality Janie cannot see until towards the end of the book.
“You don’t think Ah’m tryin’ tuh git outa takin’ keer uh yuh, do yuh, Janie, ‘cause Ah ast yunh tuy work long side uh me?... we ain’t got nothin’ tuh do but do our work and come home and love.” (122) I chose to bring this quote up because I thought it was very interesting to see how love has changed the male/female throughout the novel. Back in the beginning of the novel, when Janie was with Logan she did not like the idea of working, however, Logan told her that it was part of being a wife. Now that Janie is with Tea Cake, she doesn’t mind going out and working just so that Tea Cake can be satisfied and spend more time with her. Other examples of this change would be the fact that Tea Cake teaches Janie to shoot. Shooting, a male action is introduced by the author and I think that this along with other quotes mark the change in the role of women in the novel.
Miriam- I really agree with what you said about Samantha's comment on Janie killing the inner beast of Tea Cake, but I wanted to add one thing. What I found kind of important or at least interesting about this situation is the fact that while Janie was protecting herself, she also has to live with killing the one man she truly loved. After all Tea Cake was bitten by the dog while saving her life, and then was actually killed when she shot him. But she did have to dehumanize him in a sense in order to protect herself. It is hard to say what I would have done if I were in her shoes because I have never been in any situation even remotely similar, but I am not sure if I would have had the courage to shoot someone I loved, even if it was for their own good. I think the author uses this to demonstrate the courage and the self realization that Janie has finally gained and become aware of throughout the book.
Chris, I agree with you about the role Phoebe plays in the novel. Just like you said, I think that Phoebe is able to see past the criticisms and insults of the other people, and is very sincere and honest with Janie. If you think about the "truth-teller" role that Phoebe plays, one of the things I found interesting (this may be taking it pretty far) is that if you think about when Janie first met Tea Cake, he took her fishing. Janie told Phoebe this and she wanted her husband to take her fishing. I think that here, the author foreshadows and tells us that Janie and Tea Cake's relationship will be honest and she does this by indirectly showing it through Phoebe.
The ending of the book is amazing as it comes full circle to the beginning but with a whole new perspective. The idea at the very end: "The kiss of his memory made pictures of love and light against the wall. Here was peace. She pulled her horizon like a great fish-net. Pulled it from around the waist of the world and draped it over her shoulder. So much of life it meshes! She called in her soul to come and see (193)." This shows the cycle the simile shows how her horizon was love and tea cake allowed her to reach the horizon she had been looking for a harmonious and true love much like that of the bee and the flower. The clothing imagery also shows her great wisdom and experience and how she is now at peace with herself and that before she would be bothered by what the ladies would gossip about her but she now does not care it has no matter for her because she has done something and realized something that not many experience true natural love that transcends even the after-life. She has come full circle as a women and her transformation is complete placing her back into the place she started and show same environment, different girl and shows her inner strength and now can be at peace with herself. The ending was great much better than the drop-off of Handmaid's tale.
Chris- I definitely agree with what you said about Phoebe being the truth teller in this story. If I remember correctly I think that she mentions something early on in the book about being careful with men, and then it seems as though she was right when Tea Cake keeps mysteriously disappearing, but then he always comes back to Janie, so it is hard to say whether or not she is the truth teller exactly. However I agree that she does not necessarily give into the societal norms when it seems as though all of Janie's old friends turn against her. But I definitely agree with the whole interspersed-ness of Phoebe acting as almost a conscience or a warning for Janie- kind of that angel on one shoulder versus the devil on the other in a way- the warnings/forshadowings.
Carly, I thought that the interpretation of your passage on page 182 and the way you were able to see the allusion were really interesting. I also found another reference to the bible on page 104.. "Ah'm de Apostle Paul tud Gentiles. Ah tells 'em and then agin Ah shows 'em…” This is when Tea Cake is telling Janie about her about her beautiful eyes, and Janie responds back by saying that he has probably already told this to other girls just like the apostle Paul to the Gentiles. I think that this allusion is important because the apostle Paul was a truth-teller and ran from oppression.
The ironies in this book seem to be abundant and in addition to the irony that Brenna mentioned and I commented on I'd like to point out exactly how ironic the scene where Janie kills Joe is... The fact that he says in chapter 14 "Tell yuh whut, Janie, less buy us some shootin' tools and go huntin' round heah" and then says "Oh, you needs tuh learn how [to shoot a gun]" (130). and then later it is pointed out that her shooting was actually better than his but he was proud of his "pupil" (I couldn't find the exact quote...haha) Anyway this all leads up to the moment when Janie fires her gun and "Tea Cake crumbled as his bullet buried itself in the joist over Janie's head" (184). Evidently, he taught her how to shoot well, and his shot missed her but her shot got him (obviously because he died), making this all very ironic. I feel like the purpose of these ironies and some of the foreshadowing even is to create a sort of everything happens for a reason vibe...most likely a view of the author - but that's just a guess.
Was anyone dissapointed by the ending? I think I was. To me it seemed very anti-climatic with Janie just living out the rest of her life without Tea Cake or any other lover for that matter. I expected her to either be happy with Tea Cake at the end of the book, or run off with another man and start a new chapter in her life.
Also these are technically 45 minutes late because I just got home from baseball.
On Laura's comment on Miriam's comment on Samantha's comment about killing Tea Cakes inner beast. I don't think Tea Cake really had any more of an inner beast than anyone else in the book. He treated Janie with respect and only beat her because he was jealous, and back in the time period that wasn't uncommon. Tea Cake cares for Janie and I think that his jealously, which some might mistake for an inner beast or monster, to be a less conventional way of showing his love. While I do think the symbol of the dog is important, although I'm not entirely sure what it stands for, I do not think the rabies was meant to become Tea Cakes physical manifestation of some demon inside of him.
“You don’t think Ah’m tryin’ tuh git outa takin’ keer uh yuh, do yuh, Janie, ‘cause Ah ast yunh tuy work long side uh me?... we ain’t got nothin’ tuh do but do our work and come home and love.” (122) I liked Omar's interpretation of this quote a lot. I never realized that Janie had shifted from being a lazy young girl to a hard working woman. I think that her middle relationship, if we can call it that, with Jody caused her to lose her fear of work because she loved Jody and wanted to work hard to please him. After she lost her love for Jody she kept this same working attitude and Tea Cake didn't have to put up with a young lazy version of Janie. I think that the book would have been a lot different without Jody and that Janie would have been a much different person had Tea Cake met her at Logan's house.
I don't agree that Janie wasn't a strong or independent woman. I feel like no one takes into account societal norms, like Tessa (offense) who said he succumbed to societal norms and hit Janie and that it was bad. If one puts his or her self in the shoes of these characters they would realize that going against the norm results in alienation and exile. No one desires to be a social outcast so we do certain things to stay in the good graces of others. Janie was strong for a woman and her having the courage to leave Logan at 17, and then remarry at 40 is proof enough for me. Her independent personality developed after the death of Jody when she was truly on her own for the first time in her life, and like her work ethic, continued to be a part of her character into her later years.
Fallon- Building on your explanation of “Dis is a love game”, I feel that this quote represents also how Janie thinks of love. I think it goes back to her loving the idea of love and wanting that more than anything. Tea Cake seems to be a great candidate for a husband to give what she pictured from love. I feel like potentially this had the makings of a failure with Tea Cake as well because I did not think that she would ever think of love as more than a game. This changes with Tea Cake and I believe that is because she figured out what love is on her own and I feel she had no previous knowledge of true love before Tea Cake, just her idea of it.
Corinne- I found this part of the book to be interesting as well. I was confused on what actual reasoning Phoeby had for giving the advice she gives. After reading yours, I would have to agree with your reasoning that it is concern. “Janie, you be keerful ‘bout dis sellin’ out and goin’ off wid strange men.” This could be interpreted as being harsh or concern, in the context I think it is concern because of the context of the situation. Although she refers to Tea Cake as a strange man she is still looking out for Janie’s well being.
Laura- I find it to be significant as well that she has three men in her life, I would probably agree with the fact that it was third time is a charm. I think the whole idea of the book is for her to understand what love is and to stay true to herself. With Logan Killicks, I feel that the marriage did not work because it was not what she had thought of has her ideal type of love. With Jody, I feel that it was doomed because she stayed true to her idea of love as appose to herself. She thought Jody could provide what she wanted from love and he did not. Then, while reading I was thinking that her and Tea Cake were bound to failure because she referred to love as a game in chapter 12. I was sure that this meant she would never really understand love. It ends up working because she stays true to herself and not her grandmother or her idea of love. So, in a way I guess there are three parts of the equation as well. What her grandmother wants. What Janie wants in her mind. What Janie needs being true to herself. I think the two other marriages are their because they show what happened to love in each situation.
Omar, About your idea about the quote on p. 124. I feel that this quote is significant because it seems to try to be foreshadowing that their love will never work. It shows a lack of trust between them. Tea Cake makes it seem that she should have better than him and he is worried. At this point I was thinking this is definitely foreshadowing that this will not work. I did not however catch the real foreshadowing which was in the next quote with Janie. “… Ah specks to kill tuh kill yuh dead.” Although she threatens that she would kill him for something different than the reason she kills him in the end, it is obviously still foreshadowing of what will happen. This seems to me to be a very cool writing strategy by the author because it almost leads the reader to think that the book is predictable and it ends up being a surprise even though the author hid clues throughout the book of the ending.
Laura- Building on your explanation of the quote on 189, I have a slightly different idea than you about the meaning of the quote. I feel like the quote has a simple meaning. I do not think it is a stab in the back to Jody, I think it is more of a praising her love for Tea Cake. She dressed up for Jody’s wedding to make it seem like she was grieving because she needed everyone to believe she was. At tea cakes wedding people could portray it as she does not care enough to get dressed up for his funeral, when really it is she cares enough about him, that she does not care what other people think of her when she is grieving for her. She is true to herself. She knows she is grieving and does not need to prove it to anyone other than herself, which seems to be a reoccurring idea throughout the book.
Matt- I was dissapointed with the depressing ending. However, I feel like it was significant because it proved that love was no longer a game for Janie. She had found love and lost it. Earlier in the book she would have tried again with love because she would want what she always dreamed of from love, however by the end she realizes that the love she had with Tea Cake was more than what she had ever pictured or wanted from love because it was true love and she was true to herself as appose to true to her grandmother or true to her idea of love. So in conclusion, I do think it was a good ending because the reader knows that she will never feel the love she felt for Tea Cake ever again.
As you post comments - do include quotations and page numbers as you reference items. Look for symbols, outer-inner landscapes, the description and its significance - the characterization - dig deep to see what you find. The grading system is based on the exploratory nature of your comments, the depth of your thinking and what you do with your text references - or someone else's reference! Do not just agree - add your thoughts as well!
ReplyDeleteOne thing I noticed about the book is the dialect. It helps to show the culture of black southern America. Also having a book written by a black author during the thirties, when the book was written, goes against the black stereotypes of the time of being stupid and uneducated and having this written by a black author shows that they could write when much of America thought they could not write. The dialect makes the book a little more difficult to read.
ReplyDeleteOn page 88, there is interesting syntax where it says “All things concerning death and burial were said and one. Finish. End. Nevermore. Darkness. Deep hole. Dissolution. Eternity” (88). This is used to describe Janie after Joe’s funeral. The syntax is interesting because it lists words for the end but it puts them in fragments. Each word has its own sentence. This helps to make this section stand out. Also it adds to the negative tone about the death.
ReplyDeleteAustin, I find it ironic that Janie is sad for Joe's death because at the end of their marriage there wasn't really any love left. She has to force Joe to listen to how she felt on his death bed and still then he won't really listen to her thoughts. This also makes me think that the selection of text you choose reflects the view of the people around Janie rather than her actually feelings for Joe.
ReplyDeleteMatt A
" 'Ah wants things weet wid mah marriage lak when you sit under a pear tree and think. Ah...'" (24) This quote really shows the symbolism of the pear tree she mentions throughout the previous chapter. Her happiness, at least in her mind, depends on who her husband is and whether or not she is actually in love with him. Its not too much to ask I don't think, but in hindsight one can she how it actually foreshadows the failure of her marriages to come. After reading up to page 110, I have to wonder if all her marriages will fail.
ReplyDeleteI don't understand the significance of personifying the vultures or whatever birds they are on pages 61-62. They talk of "bare, bare fat" killing this "man". I have no idea what they are talking about unless they are foreshadowing something in the future. I thought it might be a reference to Joe's success and how his marriage will not work out even if he is successful, but I'm not sure at all.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletei think the tree is an important symbol within the book because she references it alot and compares her life to the pears and howe she wants her life to be like the pear
ReplyDeleteI have a question about Janie. It seems like she is pretty attractive, and most guys like her hair, but in one part of the book, one guy says something like, "She isn't anything but hair." So is Janie attactive or not? She must be to keep attracting these gentlemen suitors like nobody's business. I'm not just asking this because I feel like it, I think that it is important to the plot if she is, and makes the book more interesting or less believable if she isn't. I feel like Teacake would not be interesting in a 40 year old woman unless she was attractive, when he is himself 20 years old.
ReplyDeleteI think that it is interesting that Janie keeps running away from her problems while most would characterize her as a strong woman. I thought I would until I realized that she contemplated running away from Jody as well. "Now and again she thought of a country road at sun-up and considered flight. To where? To what? Then too she considered thirty-five is twice seventeen and nothing was the same at all." Janie runs away from her problems, and if she was 17 again, she would probably run away from Jody. Although it would take courage for her to start anew, I don't know if she is exactly the character I envision her to be after this description.
ReplyDelete“Ah’m just as stiff as you is stout. If you can stand not to chop and tote wood Ah reckon you can stand not to git no dinner. ‘Scuse mah freezolity, Mist’ Killicks, but Ah don’t mean to chop de first chip. “(24)
ReplyDeleteThis quote contains proof to Logan Killicks that Janie has no love for him. She uses a simile at the beginning of the quote to compare her to him. Then she, threatens him with no dinner if he does not want to chop wood. She then mocks him by calling him Mister Killicks which is obviously not what she should have to do since he is her husband. She does this to mock what he wants from her. Then she explains that chopping wood is not her work to do. This quote shows an increased dislike of Killicks and Janie being outright about it.
Hey Matt,
ReplyDeleteTo respond to your question if Janie is attractive or not, I believe she is. First, there is a uh detailed quote about her description on page 2, "The men noticed her firm buttocks like she had grape fruits in her hip pockets; the great rope of black hair swinging to her waist and unraveling in the wind like a plume; then her pugnacious breasts trying to bore holes in her shirt. They, the men were saving with the mind what they lost with the eye." I believe the last sentence of that quote is referring to the fact she is in muddy clothing, but the men are ignoring that fact.
Now when the guy says, "She isn't anything but hair," I took hair to be a symbol. Jody does not let her wear her hair down because other men like to look at it then touch it. As she keeps her hair up, she has to learn to keep her opinions to herself and the love in their marriage fizzles. I believe her hair is symbolic of her freedom or free spirit. Furthermore, when Jody dies she wants to take her hair down: "Before she slept that night she burnt up every one of her head rags and went about the house next morning with her hair in one thick braid swinging well below her waist" (89). Having her hair hidden from the world was a symbol of her passive marriage and the superiority of her husband.
Then, when the man says "She isn't anything but hair," I took that as referring to her free spirit, which is not what men want. They want a well behaved wife.
building on the tree imagery...
ReplyDelete"Janie saw her life like a great tree in leaf with the things suffered, things enjoyed, things done and undone. Dawn and doom was in the branches" (8).
I realize this is different from the pear tree imagery/symbol but I think this is worth mentioning as well. So, in this quote, Janie is comparing her life to a tree. I enjoy the contrasts and different variables in her life that she says the tree represents. Basically she is saying her life has happiness and sadness. I think different chapters of her life might be represented with branches so she also mentions each chapter in her life has "dawn and doom"
please add on to the meaning of the quote!
"She saw a dust-bearing bee sink into the sanctum of the bloom; the thousand sister-calyxes arch to meet the love embrace and the ecstatic shiver of the tree from foot to tiniest branch creaming in every blossom and frothing with delight. So this was a marriage!” (11)
ReplyDeleteIn this quote the author makes use of two very important symbols. The author uses both the bee and the pear tree to give a description of what marriage should be like. The way the author describes marriage is very important because it adds meaning and foreshadows to the problems Janie encounters later on in the novel. One of the things that stood out to me in this quote was when the author says, “the thousand sister-calyxes arch to meet the love embrace…” This particular part of the quote stood out to me because here the author talks about the bee and the tree having mutual love. However, I don’t think that Janie has experienced this “mutual love” in any of her marriages. In her first marriage, it was evident that she had no feelings for Logan Killicks. In her second marriage, it is arguable whether or not she loves Joe, but I personally don’t think she did. I think that both Joe and Janie simply used each other. Janie uses Joe as a way of escaping from her misery with Logan, and at the same time Joe uses Janie to show off her beauty.
Going off of what Hilary said, adding to the tree imagery... I found three more examples of this on pages 11 and 24. First, Janie says "Ah wants things sweet wid mah marriage lak when you sit under a pear tree and think." (24) There seemed to be a repetitious use of trees as a symbol, and the pear tree in particular. I am not exactly sure what the trees in general symbolize but i found a parallel between the "pear tree" (11) and Janie's character. On page 11 I found two examples of this pear tree. One of them actually goes off of what Omar was saying. "She was stretched on her back beneath the pear tree soaking in the alto chant of the visiting bees, the gold of the sun and the panting breath of the breeze when the inaudible voice of it all came to her." (11) This is the first reference to the pear tree on this page, and I found the second reference to be the most important. It said, "Oh to be a pear tree - any tree in bloom!" (11) I found this parallel between Janie and the pear tree because the blooming of the tree seemed to represent Janie's blooming sexuality and her coming into her own person. And not only does the pear tree bloom with flowers but it also yields fruit (pears). The pears seemed to symbolize her sexuality and her fertility, while the blooming flowers seemed to symbolize her beauty. Throughout the book, thus far, the pear tree seems to parallel Janie's character.
ReplyDelete-Brenna
... Anywho, I do agree with what you said, Hilary, in the fact that the tree is being compared to Janie's life, but I believe that it is mainly the pear tree that is being compared rather than trees in general. But i do agree with you!
ReplyDeleteAnother interesting quote that I found is on pg. 49 when some of the townspeople are talking about Joe Starks.
ReplyDeleteIt says, "He's uh whirlwind among breezes,Jeff Bruce threw in. Speakin' of winds, he's the wind as we'se de grass. We bend which ever way he blows but at dat us needs him?
One of the questions I have about this book is about the role of Joe Starks. After Joe becomes mayor of Eatonville, do the citizens respect him or fear him? Or is it that they feel that without Joe they are vulnerable, which is why they do what he tells them to do. I personally, think that the citizens have mixed feelings about him. I think that one of the reasons they obey him is because he is educated, and has helped them in many ways. Joe helps the town by putting money into it, and then he does many kind acts like when he bought the mule so it wouldn’t suffer.
Something that I found to be very important throughout these first chapters, was the use of the color gray. I found three references to the color in just the first 20 pages, that made me come to the conclusion that gray was intended to symbolize something important.
ReplyDeleteThe first use of gray was spoken by Nanny when she says, "You wants me to suck de same sorrow yo' mama did, eh? Mah ole head ain't gray enough." (14) After reading this at first, I thought gray might symbolize knowledge because Nanny is much older than Janie (clearly) and with age comes knowledge. However, after reading this second quote I found a different interpretation of the color gray. "But it was a long time after dat befo' de Big Surrender at Richmond. Den de big bell ring in Atlanta and all de men in gray uniforms had to go to Moultrie, and bury their swords in de ground to show they was never to fight about slavery no mo'. So den we knowed we was free." (19)
After I read this quote, I started to think that the color gray symbolized the white slave owners, or oppression, or slavery. It switched from a positive connotation to a negative one. And, finally after the third reference I had a better under standing of what the color gray symbolized. "Nigger, whut's yo' baby doin' wid gray eyes and yaller hair?" (17)
This quote made me think that the color gray ambiguously symbolized the white people. It symbolized all that they had and the blacks didn't, slavery, oppression... Leafy was born with character traits (the yellow hair and "gray" eyes) that white people had; the men who surrendered after the Civil War wore "gray" coats (the Confederates) and symbolized those that defended slavery. And when Nanny said, "her ole head ain't "gray" enough," she was talking about the wisdom that comes with aging, but in refernce to the wisdom that the whites had, and the rights that the whites had.
Matt, this quote caught my attention as well. I think it is significant because I think the tree represents the only thing she has loved this far in the book. She has felt no love towards Logan Killicks. This shows that she has more love for the pear tree or sitting under the pear tree, than she has for her own husband.
ReplyDeleteBrandon, I really don't think that the tree is the only thing she loves, if she even loves the tree. I think of it more as a symbolic representation rather than an outlet for emotions.
ReplyDelete“The people saw her come because it was sundown. The sun was gone, but he had left his foot prints on the sky.”( pg1)I think is interesting that is the image that introduces the story, as it is the beginning of the book and is starting with the end of it. also at sundown there is powerful images of the color oranges and reds, but the author does not take the time to describe this colors but she jumps to the dark image of the sun being gone, but this seem appropriated because of what she has said before, “ she had come back from burring the dead. “(pg1) which is a dark image. It is also parallel to the people sat in judgment, because as this women walks in in the dark they judge without knowing what has happen. This makes it ironic that they judge but that they are “ tongueless, earless, eyeless … Mules and other brutes occupied their skins.” That this people that are judging in the town have no right to judge is what I think she is saying they are not only blinded by the sun but also by their lack of intelligence.
ReplyDeleteWhen it says that he has left footprints on the sky , it makes me think that this person who she has buried has left her very good memories that will be with her for the rest of her life.
Going of what Matt said to Brandon, i agree with Matt as Brenna and Hilary said the tree is more of a parallel to her not the is the thing that she loves, because even thought she did not love her first husband as she left him for Joe and she did not love him either, because she was happy when he did as he never treated her as his equal(because of the time period women are less than men) I think that she will love Tea Cake because is a death that marks her as it says at the begging of the book.
ReplyDeleteMatt- I think that Janie is supposed to be attractive... they talk about her in her overalls in the beginning of the book as still showing her "womanhood" so I assume that means she is an attractive woman. Her attractiveness and beauty is probably why she has changed men (so to speak) 3 times in this first half of the book. She isn't happy.
ReplyDeleteThe first major theme or symbol that I found interesting was the light/dark theme mentioned on page 44. “Dis town needs some light right now.” “Unh hunh, it is uh little dark right long heah.” Here Jody and Janie are having a discussion over whether or not the town needs a street lamp. In my opinion this is a very loaded passage since Jody thinks he is just addressing the light issue but Janie knows that the new streetlamp will stand for so much more. This is a symbol for bringing intelligence and a new start to the town; it is the first of many significant changes that Jody tries to make in his quest for a perfect town. He wants so desperately to be like the white that he is trying to take the town out of the darkness, both literally and figuratively. Janie, however, knows that this new addition will only bring more harm to the small town since with new light comes a bigger ego for Jody.
ReplyDeleteHowever, on the next page (45) when the town is attending the lighting ceremony Jody makes a statement that: “All we can do, if we want any light after de settin or before de risin, is tuh make some light ourselves.” In my opinion this is a theme for the black at that time because if they wanted a better life then they had to work for it. A person’s determination and perseverance is the only thing that can propel them into a better future and I feel like the lamp signified the town bringing in a beacon of hope and not just light.
Jody moved to Florida in hopes of escaping oppression of the white people and to see himself succeed in a new place with new possibilities. Ironically when he arrives there he immediately takes over and begins to boss everyone around, like a white land owner. Then he buys a plot and build a house with: “…two stories with porches, with banisters and such things. The rest of the town looked like servant quarters surrounding the big house…he painted it-a gloatly, sparkly white.” (47) Jody is acting like a double standard and placing himself above everyone, which goes against every reason he had for moving to Florida in the first place. The bright white color is significant because it stands for power at that time and is the skin color he clearly wishes he possessed. Furthermore, the way the town is now designed his house is resembles a plantation, so while he is trying to help the new town, he is really hindering them and embarrassing them.
“This business of the head-rag irked her endlessly. But Jody was set on it. Her hair was NOT going to show in the store.” (55) Jody is a man that likes to be in total control and wants to be in charge of everyone and every last minute detail. Therefore he has a hard time being jealous and accepting that other man watch Janie. In response he demands that she keep her hair covered while in the store and in front of others. This is a perfectly good waste of such a symbol of beauty and it is Jody’s way of smothering Janie. In my opinion this is just one of Janie’s freedoms that he takes away and tries to make her resent. When in reality she should be proud of her hair and capable of showing it off freely, it is one of the last few things that she owns and can claim her own; one more thing that Jody demands the attention of.
ReplyDelete“She stood there until something fell off the shelf inside her. She stood there to see what it was. It was her image of Jody tumbled down and shattered.” (72) This is the breaking point for Janie. This quote symbolizes that she no longer sees Jody as a hero or as this wonderful man that saved her from her first marriage. No, instead he is not the dream man but more of a mannequin; he only stood in to replace what she didn’t have in the beginning. Now she is stuck with this loss of identity and the sense that she has no real love, just a fallacy. She is shocked when he hits her and that crushes her and makes her see that he is not a perfect man and that her fantasy is darker than she realized.
"Hambo said, 'Yo' wife is uh born orator Starks. Us never knowed dat befo'. She put jus' de right words tuh our thoughts'. Joe bit down hard on his cigar and beamed all around, but he never said a word. The town talked if for three days and said that's just what they would have done if they had been rich men like Joe Starks. Anyhow a free mule in town was something new to talk about" (58). This passage is a minor part of the plot but I thought it was important in contrasting the the relationship with Janie and the town and the relationship between Janie and Joe. The men in the town just love Janie, and she likes them too, but she is starting to believe at this point that she doesn't love Joe, and doesn't approve of some of the things he does in the town. She knows that her relationships are deteriorating and she just is not happy with anything she does. The men in the town also treat her like an object- something to attain. But Joe treats her more like an object than anyone, and it is disturbing. He even abuses her and she then knows that this is not going to work for her anymore. She wants to be loved genuinely.
ReplyDelete"But after a while he died. Lum found him under the big tree on his rawbony back with all four feet up in the air. That wasn't natural and it didn't look right, but Sam said it would have been more unnatural for him to have laid down on his side and died like any other beast. He had seen Death coming and had stood his ground and fought it like a natural man. He had fought it to the last breath. Naturally he didn't have time to staighten himself out. Death had to take him like it found him" (59). This passage is about the mule, which I think is a symbol in this book, that was found dead under the big tree. I definitely think that trees are a symbol in this book, but usually they are positive things that happen under/near it. This time, the mule that Joe bought from the man and then mistreated was found dead under the big tree. The personification of "Death" shows the culture of this town, and how they think of things. It seems odd that this mule would die under the tree, which I think usually symbolizes love, because a death occurred under it. I think this is foreshadowing a future death (Joe's) and may also serve as a representation of a death of Janie's love for Joe.
ReplyDeleteHilary- When you reference the quote that says, "They, the men were saving with the mind what they lost with the eye", I think that this quote alludes more to the fantasies enveloping the minds of the men who ogle over her. Just looking at her didn't create that fantasy-that was the mind's job, and this obviously supports the ongoing argument that Janie is attractive, besides the fact that she was played by Halle Berry in the film production. Just saying.
ReplyDeleteI thought a really interesting topic was the discussion between the people of Eatonville when Jody first begins as mayer, and the shift in tone towards him as his term progresses. At the beginning, he is hailed as somewhat of a white black man, if you will, with his confident demeanor and affluent appearance and composure. He is definitive in his actions, and his cavalier personality is what at first draws the people to him-he is a charismatic leader, who, through order and obedience, wishes to create a better town. But as time develops, the attitude changes, as is blatantly displayed on pages 48-50. The townspeople are starting to recognize his dictator-like attitude as a weakness, and especially and an aspect that turns the people away from him subtly.
ReplyDelete"One day she noticed that Joe didn't sit down. He just stood in front of a chair and fell in it. That made her look at him all over. Joe wasn't so young as he used to be. There was already something dead about him. He didn't rear back in his knees any longer. He squatted over his ankles when he walked. That stillness at the back of his neck. His prosperous-looking belly that used to thrust out so pugnaciously and intimidate folks, sagged like a load suspended form his loins. It didn't seem to be a part of him anymore. Eyes a little absent too" (77). This quote is an example of an inner-outer landscape. Janie is realizing that Joe has grown old and almost looks partly dead. She also realizes later on that he really is ugly inside. He is bothering her about the way that she looked and how old she was (at 35) and that she needed to be worrying about what she looked like. She realizes that Joe is trying to take her eyes off of his age and ugliness. His inner-outer landscape is ugly! Janie realizes that she is out of love with him. "...sagged like a load suspended form his loins" (77). This part of the quote is showing what his stomach looks like in a very descriptive simile because Janie realizes how horrible this man is. She describes him as ugly and fat as he truly is. The part about him looking almost dead is also the effect of foreshadowing the death of Joe.
ReplyDeleteMatt -
ReplyDeleteI think that whether or not Janie is attractive may be irrelevant when it comes to Tea Cake's feelings about her and his age. Obviously, from all of the description about the way they met, it was something similar to what love at first sight is supposed to be. It seemed like from the moment he walked into the store the entire pace of the book changed and became a lot more light-hearted than the dreariness that had proceeded it, concerning Jody dying, and his funeral and all. I think that he is in love with her, not her hair, or her looks. Those are just added bonuses. Proof of this: though he does mention her hair, saying that it is "lak underneath uh dove's wing next to my face" (103) - which could also have significance in that it seems her hair is some sort of symbol of her freedom, so he enjoys that, he also mentions her eyes and not something more physical like the way men described her in the beginning of the book "The men noticed her firm buttocks like she had grape fruits in her hip pockets; the great rope of black hair swinging to her waist and unraveling in the wind like a plume; then her pugnacious breasts trying to bore holes in her shirt" (2). And then of course in the end he says that "Nobody else on earth kin hold uh candle tuh you, baby. You got de keys to de kingdom"(109), which seems a lot like saying he fell for her and has no control over it, that's just the way it is.
Austin -
ReplyDeleteI also marked the syntax on that page!
That entire paragraph is full of figurative language though, not just those short sentences. What I thought was most interesting was the fact that the veil was blocking the outside world from her, and it made me wonder if Janie just did not want to deal with it all, or she had already moved on. Then it goes on to say "She sent her face to Joe's funeral, and herself went rollicking with the springtime across the world" (88). Later however it is obvious that Janie did mourn for Jody and was sad about his death when it's stated that "six months of wearing black passed…" (91). Also, the fact that she went "rollicking with the springtime" made me think about the tree metaphor and how the blooming that sort of signifies love only happens in the spring…obviously this is somewhere Janie likes to be. It could also be sort of foreshadowing that she is still open to love after Jody has died, or that a possibility is still there in the future (when Tea Cake comes along).
Sorry for the spelling errors in that last post. I thought another possible point for discussion was the differing opinions toward Janie and her own opinion of herself. Her life in Eaton is foreshadowed in the statement of her first husband, Logan Killicks, when he says, "Ah guess some low-lifed nigger is grinnin' in yo' face and lyin' tuh yuh. God damn yo' hide!" (32). We see the first instance of this possible detracting opinion of the narrator when the mayor abruptly halts any possiblity of his wife making a speech, informing the audience that, "Thank yuh fuh yo' compliments, but mah wife don't know nothin' bout no speech-makin'. Ah never married her for nothin' lak dat. She's uh woman and her place is in de home" (43). Already puttin down her abilities before he acknowledges her potential, Jody creates a blockade between himself and his wife, possibly making her question whether her move to go with him was the smartest choice. We soon see Janie's emotions on her own situation come out as a result: "A feeling of coldness and fear took hold of her. She felt far away from things and lonely" (46).
ReplyDeleteWe also see the role of the other people in the growing population come into play, influencing Janie's confused state even more. "Janie soon began to feel the impact of awe and envy against her sensibilities. The wife of the Mayor was not just another woman as she had supposed...She couldn't get but so close to most of them in spirit" (46). Confused with her role in the developing town, as the Mayor's wife, and as a young, attractive, intelligent black woman, Janie struggles to find her identity with her husband, the townspeople, and within herself.
Foreshadowing is the best, especially when you catch it and you're expecting something and then it happens, SO I wanted to point out that at the beginning of chapter 10 when Hezekiah asks off from work to go with his ball team, he "cautioned her about the catches on the windows and doors..." (94). It was obvious right away that something was going to happen with the windows and doors, why else would they be mentioned? Then Tea Cake comes along and Janie hits it off with him, and soon the store has to be closed up and who closes the windows? Tea Cake!
ReplyDelete"Ah figgured you needed somebody tuh help yuh shut up de place" and "He was closing and bolting windows all the time he talked" (98).
This is probably the author's way of trying to show that all the circumstances were right for Tea Cake to show up - Janie needed help closing up the store, and Hezekiah (who apparently mimicked Jody in a lot of ways) was out. It was supposed to happen and it did perfectly from how well they got along.
When Janie meets Tea Cake the night of the baseball game, and he insists on her playing checkers with him - I think that entire part is full of hidden meanings. This may be stretching it far but...
ReplyDeleteIt's obvious from the start when Janie "found herself glowing inside" and the fact that "Somebody wanted her to play. Somebody thought it natural for her to play. That was even nice" (96), she was enjoying Tea Cake's company and her relationship with him was directly contrasting the relationship she had with Jody before, where all he did was shut her down and control her.
Then, when the checkers game is being described:
"He was jumping her king! She screamed in protest against losing the king she had such a hard time acquiring. Before she knew it she had grabbed his hand to stop him" (96).
This made me think that her "king" was Jody (previously of course, before he died, and also it's ironic because the way she had to sort of bow down to him was a lot like someone's relationship with a king) and that the hard time she had acquiring him was of course referring to the way she had to leave her previous husband for Jody.
"Ah got uh right tuh take it. You left it right in mah way."
(He has a right, Jody is dead, he can take his place, and she agreed to play checkers after all.)
Yeah, but Ah wuz lookin' off when you went and stuck yo' men right up next tuh mine. No fair!"
(Tea Cake, this man who makes her feel important and is easy on her eyes came out of no where and surprised her.)
"You ain't supposed to look off, Mis' Starks. It's de biggest part uh de game tuh watch out!" (96).
(I think the game might be the game of love - she hadn't been looking for a while since Jody died and now it crept up on her. Tea Cake was definitely watching out though.)
Then the fact that Tea Cake says "Ah'll come teach yuh some mo' another time" after "They scrambled and upset the board and laughed at that" (96) shows that they're going to take the relationship slowly (getting to know one another anyway) and by scrambling up the board it's showing that the past doesn't really matter anymore - and it was a mutual messing up of the game. It seems that the author showed this new relationship and meeting through a checkers game.
Barbara, Matt, Brenna, Hilary
ReplyDeleteTotally agree with you that the tree is more parallel to her, not representing love .
Great example of this - "She wasn't petal-open anymore with him. She was twenty-four and seven years married when she knew" (71).
This is describing Janie and Jody's relationship, and obviously it describing her love for him like an open flower waiting to be pollinated or loved, and stating it is no longer open - she is no longer open to Jody or his love. This seems parallel to the tree and how it blooms in the springtime and has flowers.
Also supporting what I said about Joe and Janie's relationship fading and comparing to flowers above:
ReplyDelete"The bed was no longer a daisy-field for her and Joe to play in. It was a place where she went and laid down when she was sleep and tired" (71).
Obviously, the flowers are significant symbols of Janie's love life and when they are gone the love is gone too.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI find that Janie is simply having trouble finding the right person to be with as a significant other. She feels like she can always do better than her current position, that the "grass is always greener". This feeling is epitomized on page one in the quote, "ships at a distance have every man's wish on board." This means that from a distance, the future always looks better than the present. This feeling results in her leaving her first husband, Logan, for Joe. Joe had a bright future ahead of him as he planned to "buy big" and to "be a big voice". Joe offered a better future for her and her "wish was on board".
ReplyDeleteHowever, this too was nothing but a wish, as Joe became arrogant, dominating, and jealous of Janie's youth. Again, she desired more and now that Joe is dead, she is eager yet simultaneously reluctant to chase her "ship" again with Tea Cake.
Oops, (this is yates by the way, couldn't put my middle name for some reason) i forgot to put the page numbers after the quotes, they are as follows, in this order:
ReplyDelete1
28
I believe that although Nanny (Janie's Grandmother) despised slavery and is glad to be out of slavery and its institutions, she is still hopelessly dependent on the attitudes of inferiority and failure that slavery produced among slaves. She still feels inferior to "white people" on page 19, in stating "Ah wouldn't marry nobody, though Ah could have uh heap uh times, cause Ah didn't want nobody mistreating mah baby. So Ah got with some good white people and come down here in West Florida to work and make de sun shine on both sides of de street for Leafy." She is basically saying that a white family in the South, the source of her mistreatment for her entire life, is a better chance at a good life than a black man for a husband. She is unwilling and afraid to establish a life for herself, where she is in servitude for herself rather than in servitude for whites. This attitude is the result of a lifetime of discrimination, so much so that she actually believes that blacks are incapable of producing a healthy environment for children in the way whites can.
ReplyDeleteShe is turning to the white family to "put (Leafy) in school when it got so it was a school to put her in." She was perfectly capable of making a life for herself in a post-slavery world (granted it would not be one that a white could make in a racist America), but she is so indoctrinated with this belief that whites are smarter and more capable with blacks that she would just as rather continue serving whites for a living.
Omar,
ReplyDeleteI had the same questions about that phenomenon. Do the citizens respect or fear him? Personally I believe that it is a combination of ignorance and laziness. The former slaves that live in Eatonville are (due to no fault of their own because of slavery) uneducated and without direction and motivation to pursue any goals they have had in their life. This is shown by the apathetic behavior of the townspeople on page 35. When asked if the townspeople of Eatonville have a mayor they respond "Youse uh mite too previous for dat...we ain't got none yit." and when asked who "tells them what to do" Hicks responds "Nobody. Everybody's grown. And then agin', Ah reckon us just ain't thought about it. Ah know Ah ain't." Its this lackluster behavior that is the root of their acceptance of Joe. These townspeople are so used to having a superior govern every aspect of their lives in slavery, that they have no idea what to do with freedom. They simply wait for things to work themselves out.
So, when a (at least modestly we can assume) educated man with initiative to succeed and the money to back it up assumes control of the town, the townspeople are easily overtaken by admiration and awe of Joe, a successful black man, something they are not used to seeing. I believe this phenomenon is a commentary on the struggle of the African-American community of the time of the author, a community without direction is a community that is susceptible to persuasion by those of ill-repute.
Carly Iulo-
ReplyDelete" 'What she doin coming back here in dem overhalls? Can't she find no dress to put on?-Where's dat blue satin dress she left here in?...'" (2) - I found this passage to be particularly effective in that Hurston uses a list of rhetorical questions to show not only the materialistic nature of the society that Jody lives in, but also how much appearance plays a role in the society as well. In the first chapter Hurston constantly plays with the idea of appearance vs reality, especially when Janie first returns back into the town in this quote. I thought listing the rhetorical questions one after another was a good way to introduce the society because this quote is taken right from the beginning of the book. I found it interesting how the women of the town were more concerned with the way that Janie looked rather than what she had been through or why she looked so disheveled-it showed how much appearance in valued over the individual.
Matt-
ReplyDeleteI had the same question in my mind about her happiness being tied to her marriage. However, i believe that by the end of this section she is learning that her "first dream is dead, so Janie became a woman" (pg. 25). This is shown by her reluctance to accept Tea Cake's affections on page 109 in the quote "Well all right...no false pretense wid me!" She is trying to avoid the previous events of disappointment with Joe and Logan by avoiding running away from her problems through Tea Cake. She must learn to be happy with what she has first before she can love someone. She attempts to persuade Tea Cake away from her and tries to resist his charms in stating "don't get mad...all right wid me." on the same page. She is learning that her happiness is tied to her marriages and is compensating for this realization.
I also found it interesting how Janie is constantly treated like more of a doll than like a human being. A perfect example would be how her first marriage was arranged for her by her grandmother because the man she was marrying had a lot of land. I also found another reference on page 9 that I thought supported the idea that Janie is more of a doll to everyone around her rather than a human being: “Mis’ Washburn useter dress me up in all de clothes her gran’chillun didn’t need no mo’ which still quz better’n whut de rest uh de colored chillun had. And then she useter put hair ribbon on mah head fuh me tuh wear.” Word choice and diction is crucial in this passage as well because it is the way in which Hurston phrases the passage that make Janie seem doll like. By using phrases such as “dress me up,” she makes it seem like Janie is more of a possession than a human being. I also thought it was important to note that even as Janie gets older (because this quote was referencing when she was a lot younger), she is still treated like a child and like a possession by her family, friends etc.
ReplyDeleteMore tree imagery! There are two references to trees and roots when talking about Nanny... so. First reference, "Nanny's head and face looked like the standing roots of some old tree that had been torn away by storm." (12) Mrs. Sturgis said something about a tree and a hurricane (haven't gotten to this in our section, but I guess it happens?) so this might foreshadow this. Also, the word root is funny because her hair is gray, so the roots are literally gray (old like the storm-ridden tree... so this ties to you, too, Brenna!). Then, on page 16, the Nanny says "You know, honey, us colored folks is branches without roots and that makes things come round in queer ways." Once again, there is a reference to the Old Woman and roots, but this time, there is also a reference to life in that it says "makes things come round in queer ways." So, I definitely agree with everybody who said the tree could be a symbol for life, but I also think that it could be a symbol for wisdom (like the color gray).
ReplyDeleteJust a short comment-did anyone else find it interesting that Hurston choice the name "Tea Cake" for a man? I mean it seems like a rather unmanly name. It's actually quite feminine and I found it interesting that Hurston would choose to name a man Tea Cake. I thought that perhaps she did this to portray a softer side for males? Both Logan and Joe didn't exactly treat Janie in an idyllic way so I thought it was significant that the next man that walks into her life is named Tea Cake. Anybody have an opinion about why Hurston did that?
ReplyDeleteMatt- to answer your question about Janie, I definitely think she is meant to be attractive. Going back to my first quote about the whole idea of "appearance vs reality" I think the fact that Janie is beautiful even at and older age makes the other women in the town quite jealous which is why they tear her apart in the very beginning when she walks back in town. I thought that perhaps her hair was symbolic of her innocence in a way because that was the one thing that nobody else had any control over-I can't find the exact page but I remember a group of men even talking about how they weren't "allowed" to touch it? The idea of her hair could also be an allusion to the Bible about the story of Samson...to make the story short he has somewhat "super strength" which he claims is due to his hair. Eventually his lover Deliah comes and cuts his hair off and he becomes a prisoner to the Philistines.
ReplyDeleteOkay, so defending my idea about the pear tree being what she loved. I will agree that she does not love the pear tree, however looking back at the previous chapter I saw this quote: "The vision of Logan Killicks was descrating the pear tree, but janie didn't know how to tell nanny that."(14) Now looking at the two quotes I feel that the pear tree in this context represents or is symbolic of her idea of love. Logan Killicks is disrupting her image of the idea of love which is represented by the pear tree.
ReplyDeleteI feel like this becomes parallel to flower imagery in the later chapters with both the quotes that Anna mentioned from Chapter 6. I agree that those represent her love. I think that these flowers are mentioned at these times because it relates back to her idea of love. The flower is closed because this is not exactly what she had pictured. The bed is no longer what she imagined it to be.
Did anyone believe that the beginning of the book was really effective at setting up the book? The first two paragraphs already start with a huge theme. This quote sets up the idea of genders contrasting but also creates a connection between them as they both act accordingly to fulfill their needs in love and life but those needs greatly contrast, their is an incredibly journey to search for that need that fulfills their lives. But women are portrayed in this passage as going for their dreams while men will not reach their dreams as she says they are watchers whose enemy is time as it passes and they watch their dreams slip away. I also thought this passage kind gave way into the characterization of Janie as it kind of sets up her future events as she goes against normal gender expectations in order to seek self fulfillment as she sees men in a way that "normal" women of that society do not see.
ReplyDeleteCarly- I was thinking that! It's so weird that he's like the young stud that Janie falls for and his name is Tea Cake? I agree with you that his slightly feminine name was supposed to be a contrast against the two other loves, but I also saw it as a reference to his age. He's Janie's younger man and people thought that he was with Janie for the money so he's kinda like a baby (this is such a stretch). That's how I saw it at least... To an outsider, it would seem that Tea Cake is like Janie's young man candy (really well said, I know...sorry), so it could be ironic in that he's not just her younger man, she actually loves him.
ReplyDeleteThis probably has absolutely no significance and is a waste of precious blog space, but I found a passage that reminded me a lot of the mob mentality of the Testimonies in Handmaid's Tale... on page 61-62, during the strange swamp scene with the mule, there's the part where "he" (I'm guessing this is the Parson) is questioning the chorus about the mule and it goes like... "'What killed this man?' The chorus answered, 'Bare, bare fat.' 'What killed this man?' 'Bare, bare fat.'..." I thought the chorus chiming in was like the "Teach her a lesson!" "It's her fault" at the Red Center... But anyway, there's a lot of white imagery in this whole entire section. Which makes me wonder, what does it represent in this situation? First, there's a mention to a "white-headed leader" and later, there's mention of "bleaching bones". Taking a stab, I think the references to the white could be references to heaven, only because, right before the white references (page 60), there's mention of a "mule-heaven", but I honestly don't know... Any thoughts?
ReplyDeleteAnna,
ReplyDeleteThe checkers thing... I agree with you that it's a contrast between Jody and her and Tea Cake and her (I saw this the most in "Somebody wanted her to play. Somebody thought it natural for her to play" as these lines are complimentary of Janie and are kind - or "sweet as that" as Janie would say 97- like Tea Cake rather than controlling like Jody) I also agree that the tone is very playful, showing Janie's fondness for Tea Cake. This was best shown by the part where the two of them are flirtatiously exchanging words about playing and Tea Cake teaching her to play better and she says "Jody useter tell me Ah never would learn. It wuz too heavy fuh mah brains" so that's a pretty direct comparison between the two.
Maddie Way- I didn't think about that! It does kind of sound like a pet name of some sort which could be another reason why she chose to name him Tea Cake. I forgot to think about the fact that they were so far apart in age...
ReplyDeleteI have to agree with Yates about Nanny's inferiority being translated from her time as a slave into now. But I think that her motives are pure for Janie despite the perception that she may be keeping Janie from true love. As Yates mentioned Nanny says: "Ah wouldn't marry nobody, though Ah could have uh heap uh times, cause Ah didn't want nobody mistreating mah baby." Throughout her life Nanny was mistreated and her only desire is for Janie to have a better life and not one of maltreatment. It is the idea that parents always want their kids to have a better life than they had so I agree with a Yates totally that she sees her race as inferior and does not trust her race as much as the white people but I believe she sees Janie's only way to living a better life is if she sacrifices the idealized love Janie searches for in search of security. There are double are motivations and motives behind Nanny's discussion with Janie and her disapproval of her search for love. Anyone else agree?
ReplyDeleteThis is Tessa on Maddie's blog, sorry if it's confusing.
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with anyone who has paralleled Janie's freedom and her hair so far (I think Hilary posted about that). She was forced to tie her hair up in the handkerchief whenever she was working because Jody was so afraid of other men looking at her in a sexual way, so he had her hide it, and it seemed like it was the icing on the cake of her unhappiness. She seemed to become empty after 20 years of keeping her hair "under wraps", and it was good that she was able to let it down once Jody died. This could show that she can only meet men when she is "free," because she met Jody while she was with Nathan, and he didn't seem to care about her hair. She never met anyone else while with Jody, but after his death she met Tea Cake and was once again free to fall in love. Hiding her hair almost sucked the happiness from her life. After Jody's death, it says that the only thing that really changed was her letting her braid down, but she seemed much more light-hearted just by doing that. So basically, it seems to me that Janie's hair represents her freedom.
-Tessa
I also wanted to add another quote about Janie's hair that I found... "Before she slept that night she burnt up every one of her head rags and went about the house next morning with her hair in one thick braid swinging well below her waist. That was the only changep oeple saw in her" (89). Anybody else find if significant that the only noticeable difference was her hair? Again going back to the idea of her hair being an allusion to Samson and his hair, I thought that Janie's hair could be representative of her own strength? Not necessarily physical strength like Samson but perhaps emotional and mental strength...?
ReplyDeleteAgain, this is Tessa, haha.
ReplyDeleteI don't know if anyone else noticed this, but it seems to me that Janie is only happy when with a man. I was thinking about this while I wrote that comment above this one and although letting down her hair made her happier, after Jody died on page 89: "Most of the day she was at the store, but at night she was there in the big house and sometimes it creaked and cried all night under the weight of lonesomeness." This seems to show that Janie is incredibly lonely without Jody, which is somewhat ironic because she was so fed up with Jody by the time he was basically on his last breath and was convinced she would be much better off without him, but as it turns out, she is just incredibly lonely. Also, she left Logan Killicks for Jody, so there was no time for her to be independent there either. This could be a product of the time, too, because during this time period women weren't usually unmarried or single, so it's possible that she just was taught that she couldn't be alone. However, it almost seems to me that she is incapable of being alone. She really hasn't had a chance to be alone (that we've seen), but her love life seems to be very busy, and even though she wasted 17 years with Jody, she still was with him and didn't have an empty bed.
-Tessa
This is Tessa on Maddie's.
ReplyDeleteCarly--that is funny, we both posted about Janie's hair, though you said her hair represented her strength. I can see this because she almost comes alive after Jody's death, which is ironic, because she can't live while he is living, in a very abstract sense, because of how much he wore her down. Her hair could definitely emphasize her mental strength because of her ability to be strong after Jody died, but it seems to me that she became strong right before he died (with their confrontation that had been boiling for so long) and her hair was still wrapped up at this point. I can definitely see how she became stronger once he died, because he had been so oppressive, and her hair was let down at this point. Therefore, because her hair was seen for the first time in 20 or so years AFTER Jody died, I think her hair would better represent her freedom.
Maddie-
ReplyDeleteI was also confused by the mule death scene, which occurs from page 60 to 62. However, I think that what you're talking about could parallel to the "lesson/rape" part with Janine in The Handmaid's Tale, it is a chorus of buzzards that are chanting about the corpse of the mule, not just a chorus of people, haha. This scene is quite odd though, and I'm not sure whether or not it is symbolic, though I have a good feeling it is.
What I DO think is interesting and worth noting is from page 58. Jody has just set the mule free by buying it from Matt Bonner for 5 dollars, and Janie makes a speech about it, using allusions to Abraham Lincoln and somewhat leaving the people in awe. When Hambo tells Jody his wife is a "born orator," he "says nothing." This is significant because this shows that Janie having any brain power makes him uncomfortable. It is also ironic that he would set the mule free for a small price but keeps his wife imprisoned for their whole marriage. I know that is a bad comparison because a mule is a mule and Janie is a person, but it kind of shows how sexist and oppressive Jody is.
So if anyone has thoughts about the mule scene, please share?
--Tessa
Thanks for the clarification. Totally didn't get the whole buzzard thing.. but that kinnnnda makes more sense now. I thought it was really weird that there was a chorus there... but now the white-headed leader makes more sense, too. And I feel dumb...
ReplyDeleteI thought that Janie's argument with Jody as he is dying represents a gender reversal and also ties back to the theme introduced in the beginning of women reaching beyond the horizon as men just reach but never achieve their dreams. Janie points out to Jody that he was a power hungry and controlled her, it is his fault that she could not express her emotions and therefore could not show sympathy for him as he was dying. Janie tells Jody, "Naw, Jody, it wasn't because Ah didn't have no sympathy. Ah had uh lavish uh dat. AH just didn't never git no chance tuh use none of it. You wouldn't let me." After this moment Jody truly realizes the darkness in the way he treated Janie and it began to eat him inside he begs Janie to not tell him. Ah got tuh die, and Ah ain't used tuh thinkin' 'bout it" (86). Her strength exposes his weakness and shows that the truth can shine itself through all. This scene reminds me of Hamlet as he reveals his strength to his mother and she is forced to face the truth and that it ate her inside and the truth set Getrude and Hamlet free similar to Jaine and even Jody as he dies realizing his faults. The truth reveals the weakness and strengths in all.
ReplyDelete“She was stretched on her back beneath the pear tree soaking in the alto chant of the visiting bees, the gold of the sun and the panting breath of the breeze when the inaudible voice of it all came to her. She saw a dust-bearing bee sink into the sanctum of a bloom, the thousand sister-calyxes arch to meet the love embrace and the ecstatic shiver of the tree from root to tiniest branch creaming in every blossom and frothing with delight. So this was a marriage!” (pg 11)
ReplyDeleteThis example of ironic imagery shows how Janie perceives marriage. It is interesting to note that most of the imagery and comparison is to nature, which makes it seem as if nature is telling her to get married. Also the idea of being at peace with nature comes up in this passage. The repeated reference to the bees makes them seem very significant (I think that they could possibly be symbolic of Janie in some respects, in that they both work very hard and are under appreciated, as well as mal-treated for all that they do). It is also interesting to note that she begins this paragraph with very strong imagery about nature and then at the end says that it is a marriage. This periodic paragraph (if there is such a thing) is very important to note, because it is showing that nature is what shows us how to have “successful” marriages.
“On the train the next day, Joe didn’t make any speeches with rhymes to her, but he bought her the best things the butcher had, like apples and a glass lantern full of candies.” (34)
ReplyDeleteThe first thing that is interesting about this quote is that it begins in italics (in fact every chapter’s first line, thus far, has been written in italics). This is important, because it automatically makes the sentence stand out (and from what I can see, the first line basically states what is going to happen in the chapter/in the rest of the book). This is so significant, because it is foreshadowing what is to happen of their marriage. Joe does not want to make her happy (with love), but he wants to make her financially happy. This obsession with money and greed continues throughout the book and is in many reasons why the marriage fails (before Joe dies).
“So when the bread didn’t rise and the fish wasn’t quite done at the bone, and the rice was scorched, he slapped Janie until she had a ringing sound in her ears and told her about brains before he stalked back to the store.” (72)
ReplyDeleteThis quote seems a bit ironic to me. In the beginning, Janie left her first husband to be with Joe because he swept her off of her feet (with romance). But now, the true Joe is beginning to emerge; the Joe that is obsessed with making a profit, and will sacrifice anything to do so. It is very interesting that in the beginning, Joe was this romantic figure, who “saved” Janie from her marriage. She ran away with him in a very fairy-tale-eqsue manner. Thus this is a bit ironic that she ran away with him in order to chase her “happily ever after”, when in this scene, he is being portrayed as the direct opposite of a “prince charming”: a barbarian.
“She got nothing from Jody except what money could buy, and she was giving away what she didn’t value.” (76)
ReplyDeleteThis quote directly parallels the quote that I spoke of earlier from page 34. This shows that all Jody gave her was what money could buy (no emotional gifts of any sort). Its very interesting to note that at this point in the book, she is no longer calling him Joe, but now Jody. This change in name seems to be symbolic of a change in character. Joe is the man whom Janie ran away with in the beginning of the book, a mysterious romantic man who was taking her with him on his journey to Florida, where, Jody on the other hand(the man whom Joe has transformed into) is a harsh man who only cares about money. The name imagery in this passage creates and supports the idea that Joe has changed overtime throughout their marriage.
“Then too she noticed how baggy Joe was getting all over. Like bags hanging from an ironing board.” (81)
ReplyDeleteThis quote is very important as well as the name quote which I just mentioned, because similarly to the previous quote, this one shows a sort of transformation as well. This however, is a physical transformation to show how he has changed. This sort of physical transformation shows how he has changed for the worst. It is interesting how after he dies, she looks in the mirror and sees herself as not older, but as a wiser version of her younger self. So it seems that Jody and Janie are in some ways foils (at least physically), as he aged very horridly, and she just grew “more ripe”.
Tessa- About the whole mule vs. Janie situation, I thought that it was interesting if you look back a few pages to when the author is describing the mules and first bringing them into the book. She mentions that that is what the men talk about on the porch of the store and they tease each other. Also around this same time, the author includes that when Janie was asked to make speech, Jody cuts her off, whether she would have wanted to or not, he says that she won't. I think that this is interesting becuase it sets up the situation for what you are talking about and for what is to come later on in the book. I think that this part sets the stage for the change in character for Janie from the person who did as they were told and thought they knew what they wanted to the one who now goes out and gets what she wants to herself. In a way she becomes a woman of action through this.
ReplyDeleteI like Carly's concept of Tea Cake being a feminine name and I agree that it is meant to show a softer side to the male race. Tea cake seems to be the foil of Jody as he restricts Janie's emotions and restricts Janie from reaching past her horizon (her dreams and search for self-fulfillment). While in contrast Tea Cake makes Janie feel the joy and laughter that she needs and wants. Tea Cake loves her for who she is inside not what others love her for. He is the kind of guy that will not restrict Janie because he truly loves her loves to please her and allow her to reach her dreams. Jody and Tea Cake represent the two extremes and their effects on Janie's goals and dreams portray what society wants versus the naturalness and beauty of true love
ReplyDeleteSam- To go along with what you said about the quote on page 34 when they are on the train, I think it is interesting to compare this sentence description of Janie and Jody's marriage to what she had with Logan Killicks. During the point in the book when the sentence you mentionded is from, Janie is overally happy and excited about her new marriage and was fed up with Logan (hence why she left him). But what I find interesting is that later on we find out that perhaps she really was or could have been happy with Logan because he treated her as a person instead of as someone that needed to be taken care of and looked after all of the time. At the time this is what Janie thinks she wants, but then realizes that that was not the case.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteI looked at the comments and I'm pretty sure nobody mentioned this, but in response to the Janine vs Mule idea being tossed around, I noticed on page 19 and 20, Janine's Nanny is talking to her, and she says "De nigger woman is duh mule uh de world so fur as Ah can see" (19-20). So I think it's important to keep this in mind when pointing out the constant mentioning of the mules and how she sets the mule free. Maybe when he buys the Mule it is a metaphor for how he controls Janine as well. Also it might show that how he treats Janine may be what he feels is best for her.
ReplyDelete"It was bad enough for white people, but when one of your own color could be so different it put you on a wonder. It was like seeing your sister turn into a 'gator. A familiar strangeness. You keep seeing your sister in the 'gator and the 'gator in your sister and you'd rather not." First of all, I just really liked this quote from page 48, but I also think that is significant in this book. This sentence is describing the power and authority that Jody was earning around town. Some liked it and some didn't. However, I find this simile so interesting because well for starters sisters don't actually turn into 'gators, which leads the audience to believe that a man of color earning this much respect is unheard of, which I guess to a sense it is in this book. Then the short oxymoron of a sentence, "A familiar strangeness." makes it seem as though this does happen, but not often. I think that this ties into the rest of the book in the sense that perhaps Janie's whole situation is a familiar strangeness, in the sense of knowing what she wants and who she is. I am not really sure where I am going with this, but this part seemed to be important and profound in some way and that is how I have interpreted it so far.
ReplyDeleteChris - I like the idea of Jody and Tea Cake being foils, but I also noticed that Jody is a feminine name as well (at least to me). Maybe the author is setting them up as parallels as well as foils? I think this helps to support your argument, because I also agree that they are both the two extremes, and the parallel name idea would help the reader to make the connection
ReplyDeleteChris- I agree with what you had to say about the strength that Janie gets as Jody is dying which highlights his own weaknesses and I also thought that your comparison of this to Hamlet was really great! I would have never thought of that! But I do not think that this is the first time Janie has shown strength. I think that when she obeyed her grandma and married Logan took a lot of strength and I also think that when her grandmother died it took a lot of strength because it appears that she was now left with Logan and no one else in her life. But I also think that it took a lot of strength for her to leave Logan and go off with Jody, but at the same time, leaving Logan so quickly could be seen as a sign of weakness. Was she leaving because she really wanted to be with Jody or becuase she really did not want to be with Logan? Logan treated her as a real person whereas Jody primarily gives her things and expects her to stand there for the most part. Even when Jody asks Janie to watch over the store for a bit, she has trouble with this request; does she not want any responsibilities? Later when Jody dies, it seems that she gains some self knowledge, but would she change what she had done had she known then what she knows now?
ReplyDeleteBrandon T- I agree with what you last said about the pear tree and later the flowers, but could they perhaps both be symbolic of her idea of love, but then as her idea of love changes so does the way it is portrayed? In the beginning with the image of Logan descrating the pear tree she has a childish idea of love, but as the story goes on, she changes in her ideas of love and comes to her own realizations and perhaps as this continues and her ideas of love grom and mature the image and symbols of it do as well. I don't really know, I'm just throwing this out there.
ReplyDeleteAnother thing I found interesting was the several mentioning of gossip as the forming of public opinion and therefore it seeks to inhibit the striving of one's dreams. In the beginning she mentions the ladies gossiping when Janie returns as they believe that she was left by a man for money and someone younger they speculate about Janie and thus tries to inhibit the truth, it is false fulfillment. It also comes up again with Jody's death as the women believe that Janie poisoned him for revenge but this is not true and this depicts Janie in a negative light. It is gossip and some men that inhibit Janie's journey for truth and love. But the main example of this is when Tea Cake falls in love with Janie the women say that he is low and not good enough for her, Janie says that she does not feel Tea Cake in a romantic manner but the irony is that Tea Cake represents the exact man she is looking for, one that can provide her with the natural love and appreciation for her inner and outer beauty, he allows her to reach her dreams but the gossip may have affected her perception of her and Tea cake's relationship. So sad :(
ReplyDeleteAnna-
ReplyDeletei agree with what you said about the checkers game being a metaphor for Janie's relationship with Jody because this man is coming into her life and taking her focus off of her dead husband. Also, on page 101, Janie said "They played away the evening again. Everybody was surprised at Janie playing checkers but they liked it. Three of four stood behind her and coached her moves and generally made merry with her in a restrained way." I think this continues the metaphor to say that some people are behind Janie's relationship with Tea Cake. They like seeing her with Tea Cake, like they like seeing her play checkers. But this line only states that a few people are behind her decision, which could foreshadow that there are many others that do not agree with this new relationship. Also, I think that Janie likes to play checkers herself. She actually sounds happy for the first time in the book and its all thanks to Tea Cake.
O Laura I agree with your comment on mine I just wanted to clarify I was merely saying that she was losing her strength and that she was regaining it through this gender reversal because he had long oppressed her but revealing the truth to him shows her reemerging inner strength. I do agree that the moment you were talking about shows her strength. I was merely discussing that scene sorry for the confusion
ReplyDeleteI thought that one symbol, which Janie seemed to refer to quite often, is the pear tree. I feel like the tree symbolizes her idealized version of love. She's sitting under it right before she kisses Johnny Taylor for the first (and last) time, and she references it when she's talking to her grandmother about how she doesn't love her husband. A pear tree is a very beautiful image: it blossoms in the spring with lots of beautiful flowers, it smells nice and is nice to look at, and then it bears fruit that can be enjoyed many different ways. And then it repeats the cycle. While it sounds beautiful, it's such a superficial thing to use to talk about love. The flowers only last for a little while, and the fruit runs out eventually. Sometimes a tree will never blossom and bear fruit at all. Jamie seems like she thinks that the pear tree is the epitome of a perfect marriage, but how could it be?
ReplyDeleteI don't know if anyone has said this, and there are currently 71 posts
Sorry if someone has already mentioned this, but to go along with the whole hair conversation, I think it is interesting to note that when Janie and Jody first go to Eatonville, Janie's hair is what the men notice the most, which I found to be ironic in a sense. If her hair is symbolic of her freedom, then is her freedom or bravery what is attracting these men? After Hicks has tried to "woo" Janie he says this to Coker who questioned his skills with the women, "Tain't nothin' to her 'ceptin' dat long hair"(38). This makes me think that maybe her hair does not symbolize her freedom but something else...I'm just not sure what.
ReplyDeleteToo many post and can't tell if anyone said this but I find it interesting the idea of that tree I know Brenna, Trave, and others mentioned this but I find it interesting how while Janie is observing the bee and the flower and how this represents what Jaine is searching for as true love. The union of the bee to the flower kind of seems like her perfect romance. The harmony of these elements of nature reveal also her desire for this true love and that in order to fulfill herself and reach somewhat of a self-actualization level she needs this romance where there is beauty, harmony, and a union that is both physical and emotional.
ReplyDeleteClaire- I was just about to say something about the checker game but I will just say something really quickly. Could it also be that the people who are behind her and supporting her playing checkers are the ones who are behind her in general, not just in her relationship with Tea Cake? I see the game of checkers as almost like a new chapter in her life, almost like a second chance sort of thing and I think that these people could be the ones who care enough about her to help her out through this, but I don't know, that's just what I thought.
ReplyDeletePage 88: “ Then again the gold and red and purple, the gloat and glamour of the secret orders, each with its insinuations of power and glory indreamed of by the uninitiated.” This quote describes the colors that surrounded Jody’s funeral. These colors are typically used to describe a king. In Janie’s opinion, who knows if she thought he was king, they fought a lot during their marriage and Jody controlled most of the aspects of Janie’s life. But in the eyes of the town of Eatonville, Jody was king because he stepped up and became the mayor. Jody was praised during his life and even after because he was a smooth talker and he knew what he wanted. Everyone seemed to have a better life with Jody in Eatonville because more people moved to the newly developing town, and he built a store. Also, Jody thought of himself as being better than the people in the town so in a way, he put himself up on a platform to be praised and viewed.
ReplyDelete**This is COLLEEN
ReplyDeleteOne part that I found really interesting was that on page 45 Jody says "Folkses, de sun is goin' down. De Sun-maker brings it up in de mornin', and de Sun-maker sends it tuh bed at night." While I was reading this passage I was thinking about the title and how it is talking about God, and yet, here, in this passage it doesn't sound like they believe in any type of God. This also reminded me of the passage where Coker and Hicks were debating whether burning your hand on a stove was caution or natural because it goes back to the idea of whether or not there is a God and the fact that he might possibly have created the world and decided how humans were made and what they thought.
On page 48 it says "So when speaking stood up when the occasion demanded and said "Our beloved Mayor," it was one of those statements that everybody says but nobody actually believes like "God is everywhere." I feel as though this quote is parallel to the title of this book because Janie is comparing her husband of the time, Jody, to God and the fact that God is everywhere, so everybody can see him, and all of their eyes are watching God (because he is everywhere they are).
I know it has been mentioned before, but I just wanted to comment on the change of tone of the townspeople from when Jody and Janie first came to the town and then how it was a couple months later. They originally thought of him as a savior for coming to their town and making something out of it by building the store and the post office and by spreading the word and now they feel as though he is the devil. "Yeah, but non us all dis you see and you'se settin' on wasn't here neither, when he come. Give de devil his due." page 49. This too is a reference to God ( the savior) and the devil (good vs. evil).
On page 68,towards the bottom, I found the writing style to be very interesting because the author turns it more into a script by having the name of the speaker, a colon, and then their quote, such as...
Dave: "Well all right, less prove dis thing right now. We'll prove right now who love dis gal de best. How much time is you willin' tuh make fuh Daisy?"
I honestly have no idea why exactly the author decided to do this because she only does it for about 4 lines and then before and after it she uses normal dialect such as "Dave said," and yet there is nothing different about what is being said. Any thoughts about this?
On page 75, "Sometimes God gits familiar wid us womenfols to and talks His inside business. He told me how suprised He was 'bout y'all turning out so smart after Him makin' yuh different; and how surprised y'all is goin' tuh be if you ever find out you don't know half as much 'bout us as you think you do. It's so easy to make yo'self out God almighty when you ain't got nuthin' tuh strain against but women and chickens." I found this quote really interesting because it is a huge part in the character development of Janie. Even though she is seen as a strong women, this is one of the first times where she puts herself into the conversation of the towns citizens who sit on the store's porch and gives her complete opinion and input. And then after having taken a big step forward, she is pushed right back into her supposed "place" by the men.
-Colleen
**This is COLLEEN.
ReplyDeleteCorey - I like what you said about Jody and Janie being foils, because as I was reading it I noticed the fact that they called him Jody, and that it was a feminine name. I also believe that they are both very strong characters inside, it's just that Jody was more open about his and active with his thoughts while Janie might have thought of leaving and standing up for herself, yet she never did it to the effect that it made a difference.
Chris, I like what you had to say about the gossip. I think you are right about how they sort of depict her in a negative light. They think she looks foolish at the beginning for falling for a younger man and returning, so it appears like he just tricked her. The people also think that she did poison Jody, which is another negative thing that they see in her. I think these examples are shown to teach a lesson about gossip, and I sort of think that that is what the whole book is about--not being so quick to judge and spread rumors, because they aren't always the truth.
ReplyDelete-jenny
I thought that the way the townspeople acted about Joe and what they seemed to think about him was interesting. They almost worship him in the beginning as a savior and seems to be elevated above the level of a person and to an almost demigod-like state, which seems to go to his head and gives him a slight god complex. What I think is so funny about it is that the townspeople are just kinda like "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" because he built up the town to what it has become, but then they're also unhappy because of the way he acts and treats them. They feel like he thinks he's better than them, and they even say that he's acting like a white man rather than the black man he is. Sam Watson says on page 49 that they have to "Give the devil his due" which shows that they appreciate everything he's done, even if it is grudgingly. I just wonder why they put up with him after he started getting all mean, especially Janie. He told her what to do all of the time, and what to say and how to act. It says that part of it was because he was jealous of the other men and how they wanted Janie as their own wife, but I can't help but thing that it was also about the power he held over her. He got her to leave her husband for him and he just maniuplates her more and more.
ReplyDeletePage 21: “Did marriage end the cosmic loneliness of the unmated? Did marriage compel love like the sun the day?” I think this is Janie’s first impression of what love is supposed to be because she is so young and she does not know any better. From this she believes that love comes from marriage, not marriage comes from love. I almost do not think she believes this herself because before this she thinks about finding someone that she just knows is the right one, but her Nanny is forcing her to marry Logan Killicks. I think this is just a sense of comforting herself so that she will marry Logan because she feels she will find love.
ReplyDeleteA few pages later she realizes that her marriage to Logan is not making love. page 25: “She knew now that marriage did not make love.” She is upset here because she thought it would come naturally to just love her husband once they were together, but it is not easy at all. She does not love Logan because this marriage is not what she thought it would be. I think this foreshadows that she will never be happy until she finds love before she gets marriage. In a way Jody was what she thought was love because she chose him, but that did not work the way she wanted. Once again she is choosing Tea Cakes, so maybe it will work to her advantage.
Colleen, I like what you had to point out about the 'sun-maker'. In christianity we know that it is God who created the universe, and said "let there be light" which refers to the sun, our light source. I like how you thought about how the book is called "Their Eyes Were Watching God" but saw that they referenced to a 'sun-maker' instead of God. You would think that they would reference something more toward Christianity, but they don't and i do think that it is odd.
ReplyDeleteClaire - I thought your observation about the colors at Joe's funeral being the colors associated with royalty was really good. I didn't notice it, but they do seem to me to be colors that are associated with kings. However, I don't quite agree with what you said about the people of Eatonville viewing him as a king. I think that they sorta resented him because he was so successful and made all of his money off of them and used them and made them do everything while he delegated, but they kept him around because he improved the town so much. He almost had this sort of facade at first when he almost just impressed the people into making him mayor, and then the superiority he felt came out and he made the others dislike and resent him.
ReplyDeleteIn a book in which Janies is trying to find her identity there comes a symbol that can show her individuality, her hair. Her hair can represent her defiance to the norm, it can represent something that crosses gender lines and gender rules, and it can also represent a symbold of whiteness. I also found a major play on irony on page 39 is states "Us talks bout de white man keepin' us down! Shucks! He don't have tuh. Us keeps oursleves down. I found this ironic becuase Janie is out to find her individuality and freedom but her own black race is hoilding themsleves down and they admit it too.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure the mule has been talked about already, but I just wanted to say somethign about it anyways. I was really confused as to why they were going on about the mule originally. However, when I got to page 56, when everyone except Janie is trying to catch the mule, I decided that the mule was a symbol for Janie and how she felt on the inside. They commented a couple pages before that about how the owner of the mule, Matt, was starving it and not giving it as much food as he said they were because the mule was so skinny. Of course, Janie isn't being starved physically, but mentally and emotionally she is. She isn't allowed to do anything or say anything or even really think anything that Joe doesn't approve of. Janie says, while muttering to herself about how they're trying to catch the mule, that the mule has been "worked tuh death", which reminded me of her. Janie doesn't actually have any actual physical labor that she has to do and is nowhere near her actual death, but she's pretty much dead inside. Her relationship with Joe is already dead, she's unhappy, and she's fallen out of love.
ReplyDeleteAnthony - I didn't think about her hair being a symbol of her individuality, but I agree with you now that I'm thinking about it. Her hair is what really sets her apart from every other person in the town, and even in the book. All of the women are jealous of it, and all of the men love it and want to touch it (which makes Joe jealous). I thought it was interesting, however, that Joe's jealousy of the men's love of her hair is one of the main reasons that he controls her so tightly and takes away her individuality that is so engrained in her.
ReplyDeleteSamantha-
ReplyDeleteI agree with you about what you said about Jody not being the true prince-charming. I noticed that she made the choice to run off with Jody because his appearance seemed better than Logan's. She thought she would be able to find true love by someone coming along to save her from what she thought was a bad marriage. I guess karma came around and got her because the man that she thought was perfect for her turned out to just want her as a trophy. Jody reminded me a Torvald because he only wanted Janie for himself like when he made her tie up her hair at the store because the men were looking at it. page 55: "That night he ordered Janie to tie up her hair around the store...She was there in the store for him to look at, not those others." Janie is like Nora i guess then because she does not stand up for herself for a while until she was pushed too far.
I have to agree with Colleenon the fact that Janie was pushed back to the men stance and this goes along with the fact that the own black race keeps their people back like said on apage 39 they want tio advance but they hold themselves back so they do not make a scene
ReplyDeleteSooo - the time is up for the first half - the second half is to be commented upon on Sunday night and Monday night - if you feel that you did not comment enough in the first half - do more in the second half. ALSO - read the posts - even if there are 71 or 100 of them.... because the point is to comment on the others' thoughts - if you just repeat what someone has already said - the point value goes down! I am loving the insights that you are having - and I am VERY happy that many of you are commenting on her style and her figurative language - it is stunning! Also it shows me that you do know how to do this well - even though the oral commentaries may have made you nervous enough to forget it!! I am also loving that you are building on each others' ideas - keep up the good work!!
ReplyDeleteI didnt see anyone who commented about the image of the sea or ship imagery. I found this to be one of the major symbols. "Ships at a distance have every man's wish on board. For some they come in with the tide. For others they sail forever on the horizon, never out of sight, never landing until the Watcher turns his eyes away in resignation, his dreams mocked to death by Time. That is the life of men." This opens the book in a paragraph by itself. This is important to note because later in the book she makes many comparisons with women's lives and men's lives that seems to be a motif in the book. Also the ships represent the journey of janie and of other characters in the book.
ReplyDeletecommenting on matt and hilary's comments about janie's attractiveness i found something on page 70 that also goes along with the symbol of the ships. "She was a wind on the ocean. She moved men, but the helm determined the port. Now, this night she mounted the steps and the men noticed her until she passed inside the door." the comparison with janie and the ocean show how she is a free spirit but she is controlled by the men around her.
ReplyDeleteThe porch is personified as a character in the book, "the porch laughed all togther" "The porch was boiling now." This is important to note because the porch represents the community and these men follow jody most of the time. It seems as if the porch is always watching an always a part of the major decisions of the town.
ReplyDeleteThe Hurricane in the book represents all the hoirrible destruction in the world. Mother nature takes her wrath out on the human race through the hurricane. The hurrican makes people question themselves and one another causing a digression from human nature. The Hurrican represents the thing that destroys all that is sacred in the world. Outside forces out of human control effect humans such as Janie greatly. It is a foil to the pear tree and the horizon.
ReplyDeleteThe quote "if you know what is good for you you will shut your mouth until somebody calls you up shows the anger that the black people take out on one another and tell them to be quite. The quote shows that the black people hold each other back not just the white man.
ReplyDeleteAnthony- I think that the quote is trying to show as you say the black holding each other back, but I think is more to show the time that the book is set in and the situation even though am not sure because I don't know were it is in the book. About the Hurricane. I think is a symbol of destruction, but i think there is more to it. As it being a symbol of the love that Tea Cake and Jaine and how it was un-distortable . That they really loved each other, it was not because Jaine was really pretty. But because Tea cake really love her. as he risks his live for her when the dog is trying to attack her 166pg. Te cake goes and safes her. I think that the dog maybe a bigger sing of destruction then the hurricane is. As the dog bite ends up being fatal for tea cake.
ReplyDelete"They passed a dead man in a sitting position on a hummock entirely surrounded by wild animals and snakes. Common danger made common friends. Nothing sought to conquest over the other."164 I thought this was an interesting image because I see that Tea Cakes and Jaine's relationship the same way. that Jaine's life was dead until this wild animal(tea cake) came into it. and how in the relationship there is not conquest one over the other. even thought Tea Cake hurt Jaine once, they have an equal relationship unlike what she had before with the other men that she was with. This maybe a bit of a stretch thought.
ReplyDeleteBarbara-I found it interesting as well that Janie is so infatuated with Tea Cake even after he "hurt her." Unlike the other men in her life who she ran away from and disregarded after they treated her so poorly, there's something about Tea Cake that keeps her coming back. I think that his age may have something to do with it as well...while Janie isn't terribly old (I believe she is 40 or so?) Tea Cake is almost like her way of holding on to the past. I also found it interesting that she falls for a man who is so much younger than her because her first husband was a lot older than she was so I thought it was interesting to note the similarities between the two...just a thought though!
ReplyDeleteKelly- I Totally agree with you the porch is personified as a person in the book, but is not only with Jody but also later with Tea cake. the porch seems to be their community around them."The house was full of people everynight. That is, all around the doorstep was full. Some were there to hear Tea cake pick the box; some came to talk and tell stories, but most of them came to get into what ever game was going on or mighth go on." As well it makes me think that how both Jody was the main person intown back were they were how tea cake is the main person in the muck. It seems as Jaine has been with men that are really importan and they balance out her powerfull personality of a free spirit.
ReplyDeleteAnthony- going off of your quote about how the black society is holding back the black society...it's interesting that you point that out because I thought about that too while I was reading the beginning of the book. The interesting thing about this novel is that it doesn't put much blame on the white society for oppressing the African Americans as many book that are written about that time period do...much of the fault lies in the "caddy behavior" towards each other. For example, in the first half of the book when Janie is walking into town, the women constantly question why she looks the way she does and why she looks so disheveled instead of lending a hand or asking if everything is alright. I really liked how this novel took a diffrent approach about the time period..it makes it stand out among other books of its kind.
ReplyDeleteCarly! I agree with you am not sure what keeps her so infatuaded with tea cake, and I agree it maybe the age difference, I also think that it may have to do with this would be the way for her to experience all this great fun that she could have had once if she had not being married so young, but i am not sure
ReplyDeletei found it interesting how Tea Cake could beat Janie but Janie still love him and not be angry or upset with him because of that. i also found it interesting how on page 148 sop-de-bottom says "Ah love tuh whip uh tender woman lak Janie" this is intersting because the black men like sop-de-bottom wish to whip the young black women. this puts a spin on things from when all blacks were whipped by the whites. this could be because of Mrs. Turner and her white beliefs and how she is telling them to Janie, and how Tea Cake tries to show how he is in charge in the house
ReplyDeleteAnthony and Barbara, I agree with what you said about the Hurricane. I feel that it is a symbol for love and destruction. It shows love because of how Tea Cake save her. But it shows destruction because of the not only what it does to the outside world, but also because it brings along the dog that bites tea cake and kills him. It also shows the perserverance of Janie becuase she sticks through the hurricane and finds a way to survive.
ReplyDeleteI find Mrs. Turner ironic. She is black but she hates black people. Also it is ironic because she likes Janie even though she is black. Also it seems like not being like any black people is very important to her when she says "Look at me! Ah ain't got no flat nose and liver lips. Ah'm uh featured woman. Ah got white folks' features in mah face. Still and all Ah got tuh be lumped in wid all de rest. It ain't fair. Even if dey don't take us in wid de whites, dey oughta make us uh class tuh ourselves" (142). This shows that she does not want to be black. Also she talks like the other black people but she wants to be different.
ReplyDeletethe hurricane could also show how Janie struggles to find someone to love entirely and not just for specific things. granted she loved Tea Cake but there were things about him that weren't good, such as gambling, or the beatings, or him disappearing and then showing up randomly after taking Janie's money. the hurricane definitely represents a struggle in Janie's life
ReplyDeleteI found it really amusing how Hurston plays with the idea of gender role throughout the whole novel. Janie is obviously a fairly strong woman and I found it interesting how she and Tea Cake contrast each other. I think that at times Hurston even made Janie appear stronger (like the man in the relationship). I found this quote in chapter 14 that supports this idea..."And the thing that got everybody was the way Janie caught on. She got to the place she could shoot a hawk out of a pine tree and not tear him up. Shoot his head off. She got to be a better shot than Tea Cake" (131). After I read this the first thing I thought of was The Things They Carried and the story about MaryAnn going to Vietnam. Hunting and shooting guns is typically associated and thought of with men in mind and the fact that Janie eventually got better at it than Tea Cake seems to be a comment about gender roles in the society. I thought the syntax of the passage was pretty important too because Hurston uses short, concise sentences to get her point across. The two short sentences at the end of the passage really captivate and grab the reader's attention...AND one last idea that goes along with the question of gender roles in the society...his name alone is pretty unmanly (Tea Cake) so I thought that perhaps this was another way Hurston was able to subtly comment on the irony behind the patriarchal society...so I found it pretty significant that Tea Cake is almost more like the woman in the relationship than Janie is, yet he still insists on asserting his dominance. anyone else find any evidence on Janie being portrayed more like the dominant figure as opposed to Tea Cake?
ReplyDeletei found it interesting how Janie married someone with less money than she did and knew about widows who were scammed out of their money. i find it interesting because in the books we have previously read the men are the money maker except in this one. i also found it interesting how Janie learned how to hunt and became a better hunter than Tea Cake did.
ReplyDelete"Poor Joe Starks. Bet he turns over in his grave every day. Tea Cake and Janie gone hunting. Tea Cake and Janie gone fishing. Tea Cake and Janie gone to Orlando to the movies. Tea Cake and Janie gone to a dance. Tea Cake making flower beds in Janie's yard and seeding the garden for her" (110). This passage is in the first page of the second half, and it struck me as soon as I read it. The parallelism (isocolon?) in these sentences are important in showing the theme of appearance. Everyone in the town thinks that she is still "Mrs. Mayor Starks" but she really never was (emotionally). She appears to be an unfaithful woman, but she really just isn't happy. Her husband died almost a year ago, and she is with Tea Cake, and the townspeople think badly of her. This poor woman just wants happiness and to be loved, which she hasn't found in her past two relationships. I think she wants someone who will take care of her and love her as her grandmother did. She hasn't found that yet. I think this whole novel is Janie's journey in her life for love.
ReplyDeleteBrandon- I think what you said about Janie being the money maker also goes back to the idea of gender roles in this book like I said before. Men "usually" make the money, Janie is the moneymaker in this book...I don't know I think Hurston was commenting on typical gender generalizations, I could be wrong though
ReplyDeleteI also agree with Brandon about the hurricane. Except I believe that the hurricane that Tea Cake and Janie experience while in Jacksonville is more specific than a struggle in Janie's life. I think that the hurricane is symbolic of a struggle in their own marriage. It's almost just when they figure everything out and think everything is going to be okay, life throws them a hurricane to deal with. And then Tea Cake goes crazy. I think that the hurricane is definitely a struggle, that is agreed. But I think that the aggressive nature of the hurricane also shows that she can't find love, it seems, no matter where she looks or what is thrown at her.
ReplyDeleteFallon-
ReplyDeleteI thought the parallel structure was really striking as well. While I agree with you, I htink it's more than just showing the appearance. I also think that it shows a lot of jealousy on the part of the townspeople. I can just hear them saying it in a snarky, mocking tone. All of the guys in the town lust after her and all of the women are jealous of her looks, and so I think that the guys are jealous because Tea Cake has her and they don't, and the women are jealous because she's Janie and she evokes jealousy from all of the other women anyways.
Just wanted to point out another example of female dominance... "One day Tea Cake met Turner and his son on the street. He was a vanishing-looking kind of a man as if there used to be parts about him that struck out individually but noe he hand't a thing about himm that wasn't swindled and blurred...'Her husband can't do nothin' dat butt-headed woman. All you can do is treat her cold whenever she come round here" (144). After hearing what Mrs. Turner says about Tea Cake to Janie, Tea Cake decides he wants to talk to Mr. Turner but when he finds him he soon learns that the man is just an oppresed soul that has no control over his wife. Again, this was just another example of how typical gender roles are put into question in this novel. OH and I thought the word choice was pretty great too...I mean Tea Cake refers to Mrs. Turner as a, quote, "butt-headed woman." The word choice makes Tea Cake seem almost childish (saying butt head) and this plays into the fact that he is a lot younger than Janie is and is really still like a child...
ReplyDelete"''Cause Tea Cake ain't no Jody Starks, and if he tried tuh be, it would be uh complete flommuck. But de minute Ah marries 'im everybody is gointuh be makin' comparisons. So us is goin' off somewhere and start all over in Tea Cake's way. 'Dis ain't no business proposition, and no race after property and titles. Dis is uh love game. Ah done live Grandma's way, now Ah means to live mine.'''(114). This passage means so much to the book! It basically underlines how Janie feels about her life and what she wants to do with it. "Dis is a love game" represents the entire novel! That's all she wants is love, someone to care for her the way her grandmother did. She says she is going to live the way she wants to now, not the way her grandmother wanted her to. This shows that she is searching for identity, that she thinks she will find in love. The syntax of this passage is also important in finding the themes and meanings. She states that everyone will make comparisons between Tea Cake and Jody, but the passage is written that way, so the readers are forced to compare the two. I also wanted to talk about the name of her future husband, Tea Cake. It is an interesting name for a man that Janie wants to marry. It seems so feminine and the author probably meant it to be. He runs away from Janie when they first move, and she feels so betrayed. He seems cowardly, so the name Tea Cake fits his delicate self.
ReplyDeleteI thought that the interaction between Janie and Pheoby in chapter 12 was really interesting. Pheoby seems to really care about Janie, and, although her husband is the one who told her to talk to Janie about Tea Cake and how he may be trying to get her money, I think that she tells Janie out of true concern for her rather than jealousy or because she just wants to find out what Janie and Tea Cake are up to. I also like how Janie says "Ah done lived Grandma's way, now Ah means tuh live mine" (114) and how she finally decides that she's going to live her life how she wants to and try to be happy. She doesn't seem to care about being able to sit around and do nothing all day. Pheoby even says that she'd "love tuh experience it for just one year" (114) yet Janie still doesn't care. Janie is almost reckless, not even listening to what Pheoby says, but she says that it's a chance she's willing to take.
ReplyDeleteAustin-
ReplyDeleteThere's a lot of irony centered around race and I completely agree with you that it is ironic that she hates black people (and is slightly angry/violent because of them... see page 152) and yet she is black. It kinda ties back to the very beginning of the novel when Janie is surprised that she is black. Perhaps this connection between the two characters and their dislike of (or in Janie's case, lack of knowledge about) their race presents a theme of identity (since nobody has really discussed identities yet...).
I'm just going to keep on posting on the same thingy because it seems easier... Sorry. I'm being lazy... Continuing on on the racial-irony-division concept above, on page 185, there's an interesting passage that says " And twelve more white men had stopped whatever they were doing to listen and pass on what happened between Janie and Tea Cake Woods, and as to whether things were done right or not. That was funny too. Twelve strange men who didn't know a thing....They wore good clothes ad had the pinky color that comes of good food. They were nobody's poor white folks. What need had they (ITALICIZED) to leave their richness to come look on Janie in her overalls? But they didn't seem too made, Janie thought. It would be nice if she could make them (ITALICIZED) know how it was instead of those menfolks... They ought to let her go see about it...And none of them knew." So, there's a lot of "them" and "they" in this is passage and what I find most interesting is that two are italicized and the rest are not. I don't know why just these two as the whole passage has the same annoyed tone as the two lines with the italicized words, but it is ironic that Janie somewhat hates these white women and jurors much like Mrs. Turner hated the black people. This is another connection between Janie and Mrs. Turner and as I said before, Janie thought she was white earlier, so she is especially like Mrs. Turner in that she dislikes people who are of her own (well, what she thought was her own when she was a child and who she grew up with) race.
Kelly--
ReplyDeleteI definitely agree with your personification of the porch, and I agree with your interpretation of the quote from page 70 "She was a wind on the ocean. She moved men, but the helm determined the port. Now, this night she mounted the steps and the men noticed her until she passed inside the door." This is a great example of how women are expected to act inferior to men and it also ties with my next quote...
The first page of chapter 17 talks about Tea Cake's jealousy and how he then whips her to demonstrate the power he has over her:
"Before the week was over he had whipped Janie. Not because her behavior justified his jealousy, but it relieved that awful fear inside him. Being able to whip her reassured him in possession" (147).
I know their society is different from ours, but I find it appalling Tea Cake whips Janie to show ownership. This reinforces Janie's free spirit-ness and how the men have to be in control.
Paralleling Tea Cake and Janie's relationship, there is Mr. and Mrs. Turner relationship. I think Mrs. Turner likes to wear the pants in the relationship. She also thinks she is superior to black people, "Ah can't stand black niggers. Ah don't blame de white folks from hatin' 'em 'cause Ah can't stand 'em mahself. 'Nother thing, Ah hates tuh see folks lak me and you mixed up wid 'em. Us oughta class off" (141). She also tries to set Janie up with her brother. On page 152 is another example of Mrs. Turner's superiority over Mr. Turner and she yells at him "What kinda man is you..."
I am not quite sure of the significance of the parallel, but I thought I would point it out.
Another tree reference...
ReplyDelete"Shucks! If dat's her notion she's barkin' up de wrong tree. Mah hands is full already" (143).
I know this is a common metaphor/saying, but I thought it was interesting the author added this in...when I first read this I kind of thought it was ironic because the tree symbol I took as deep symbol...and this overused saying it shallow...it also calls Mrs. Turner a dog, which she is for thinking she is superior and wears the pants in her relationship.
"But, don't care how firm your determination is, you can't keep turning round in one place like a horse grinding sugar cane. So Janie took to sitting over the room. Sit and look" (118).
ReplyDeleteI thought this passage really paralleled what Janie's life has been like so far. It seems to me like all she's been doing is "turning around in one place like a horse grinding sugar cane", which is also a really good simile. All she seems to do is get married, try to make the marriage work, become unhappy, and then leave her husband, whether it be physically (Logan) or emotionally and also spiritually (Jody). She seems to be in danger of something similar happening again when this passage appears, where her marriage falls apart and she's no longer happy. At this point in the book all we know is that she and Tea Cake do eventually part ways, although we don't know the circumstances except for that he didn't steal her money and run off with someone else.
"But the fourth day after he came in the afternoon driving a battered car. Jumped out like a deer and made the gesture of trying it to a post on the store porch. Ready with his grin! She adored him and hated him at the same time. How could he mad her suffer so and then come grinning like that with that darling way he had? He pinched her arm as he walked inside the door" (108).
ReplyDeleteI really liked this quote because immediately after I read it, I thought this was what her first marriage was missing. This playfulness and romanticism. The simile the author uses..." like a deer and made the gesture of tying it to a post on the store porch" shows Tea Cakes playful nature and making a romantic gesture. (He got a car to take her to a picnic)
Carly-
ReplyDeleteI also thought that the fact that Jamie sometimes steps into the role of the man was interesting. I thought it was a good way to show the dynamics of their relationship, and I think the fact that she was better at some things than Tea Cake was even helped contribute to some of the suspicion he feels towards her at the end of the book when he's dying. I think that he feels jealous of her because she's better at some things that he should be better at, especially hunting which is supposed to be a man's thing so he can provide for her. This jealous causes him to overcompensate and assert his physical dominance over her by beating her, even if he makes up for it afterwards. I also think that it's interesting how at the end he has a pistol, yet she has a rifle, which to me seems to symbolize how she actually did hold a position of power in their relationship that he could never match.
Fallon-
ReplyDeleteThe event you pointed out was something that I had noticed as well. Janie (as you stated) has struck out for herself in her relationship with Tea Cake. She's not going to do things her grandmother's way anymore, and says so on page 114. I also noticed that later on, when she is being further judged even after they move to the Everglades by Mrs. Turner. On page 140, in reference to Tea Cake being married to Janie, Mrs. Turner stated "Tuh git hold of uh woman lak you. You got mo' nerve than me. Ah jus' couldn't see mahself to no black man. It's too many black folks already. We oudda lighten up the race." Turner, a black woman married to a black man, is criticizing another black woman for marrying a black man. This incredible hypocrisy is astounding to me, and brings up a whole new issue. The racism of slavery has penetrated so deep into black society, that by simply being a lighter shade of black, one is suddenly entitled to superior rights and opportunities than those of their counterparts. This is displayed further as she characterized Booker T. Washington's achievements as detrimental to African-Americans in saying "All he ever done was cut de monkey for white folks. So dey pomped him up. But you know what de old folks say 'de higher de monkey climbs de mo' he show his behind'" and "He was uh enemy to us. He wuz a white folks' (n-word, sorry i just can't bring myself to type it)." This is even MORE hypocritical, as she just went on an entire tirade as to how blacks with lighter skin were superior to those with darker skin. Now suddenly she feels some sort of loyalty to the African-American community? The author is trying to display the divisions in the black community after slavery, those trying to separate themselves from their identity as blacks, and also displaying the effects of the old saying "everyone has to have someone to look down on."
the hurricane is a symbol of destruction in the latter half of the book. I think that the hurricane represents how nature can bring destruction. it seemed to me like this was supposed to be a parallel to the pear tree. That was beautiful but the hurricane wasnt. not only was it the opposite symbol but i also think that it is an allusion to noah's ark. the relationship between jody and janie is represented with the two by two, that storm eventually led to the destruction of their relationship
ReplyDeleteCorrine-
ReplyDeleteI agree with you on Phoebe's genuine concern for the well being of Janie. If you look on page 111, Phoebe is incredibly reluctant to intervene in Janie's life in multiple statements. In one passage she states, "Dat's de way it looks. Still and all, she's her own woman. She oughta know by now whut she wants tuh do." and later characterizes the sentiments of some of the neighbors distaste for Janie's relationship with Tea Cake as "jealousy and malice" and that "some uh dem very mens wants tuh do whut dey claim deys skeered Tea Cake is doin'". This is further commentary on social hypocrisy by the author. This instance combined with the epic hypocrisy of Mrs. Turner that I mentioned earlier as well as the gossip and whisperings earlier in the novel all serve as a shining example of the crippling hypocrisy that our society suffers.
Hilary!
ReplyDeleteI like that quote, too! It reminds me (this is sooo not IB, but...) Ten Things I Hate About You. It's playful and romantic and young, a definite contrast to Janie's previous marriages and in one of my earlier posts (the checkers one) I talked about how the relationship with Tea Cake is different because it is flirty and playful. I think this quote could be used to support that argument. In terms of syntax and lit devices, I like the comparison to the deer (simile!) and also the use of the exclamatory phrase "Ready with his grin!". Both show the love/hate/playfulness (like in Ten Things I Hate About You) and make the reader feel the sudden bursts of emotions Janie felt.
"So when he went out to the outhouse she rushed to see if the pistol was loaded. It was a six shooter and three of the chambers were full..." (182). I thought that it was significant to point out that the loaded gun that Tea Cake had contained three bullets...this reminded me of a few things: 1. 3 strikes and your out.... and 2. an allusion to the Holy Trinity (Father, Son, Holy Spirit). Its intereting how there are three bullets in the gun because in theory it gave Tea Cake three different chances to kill Janie if the previous bullets missed. I thought that perhaps this could have been an allusion to the Holy Trinity because in the end, the fact that there were only three bullets in the gun saves Janie because she is able to set it so that the gun goes through the three empty chambers before it actually gets to the bullets...but I wasn't positive as to why Hurston would choose to only have three bullets in the gun...
ReplyDeleteThankfully I only had to stay at work for an hour :)
ReplyDelete“He done taught me de maiden language all over. Wait till you see de new blue stain Tea Cake done picked out for me tuh stand up wid him in. High heel slippers, necklace, earrings , everything he wants tuh see me in. Some of dese mornin’s and it won’t be long, you goingtuh wake up callin’ me and Ah’ll be gone.” (115)
This quote is directly showing a rebirth for Janie. In another part of the book, there is a passage which parallels this one, in which she speaks of her old life and how she did nothing but get engulfed by the walls, because Joe had not given her anything to do (outside of the store). She speaks this way about feeling young again (which references a later passage that I will write about on page 181). Thus in many ways, this can appear to be a re-birth for the narrator (in a slightly backwards way, as she is approaching old age). She talks of Tea Cake as being a new start for her. Being such a serious character in Janie’s life, it is slightly ironic that his name is Tea Cake, which is a somewhat childish name. However, at the same time, in many ways, Tea Cake brings life back to Janie after they get “married”.
“After a while there was somebody playing a guitar outside her door. Played it smart a while. It sounded lovely too. But it was sad to hear it feeling blue like Janie was.” (120)
ReplyDeleteThis is an ironic statement, because it is Tea Cake that is playing the guitar outside of her door. She is concerned with where Tea Cake is all day, to find out that he spent the whole day being charitable to the men and women that worked in the train yard. It is interesting to note the use of color imagery here, where blue is symbolic of sadness/disappointment (at this point, she believes that Tea Cake has stolen her money and left her.
“Sometimes Janie would think of the old days in the big white house and store and laugh to herself. What if Eastonville could see her now in her blue denim overalls and heavy shoes!” (134)
ReplyDeleteThis is the point in the novel, where we see a true, dramatic change in Janie. We see her for one, laughing at those in Eastonville, who previously had a bit of a voice in Janie’s life. In addition, we also see her in a more casual light (where before she was all dolled up in a dress and heels). This also relates to the idea of the re-birth mentioned on page 115).
“It is the stones for alters and the beginning of wisdom. Half gods are worshipped in wine and flowers. Real gods require blood.” (145)
ReplyDeleteThis quote is very interesting, it comes after Mrs. Tuner is talking to Janie about the black people in the world, and how it is there fault that racism exists, as well as that she cannot believe that Janie would get with a man “as black as” Tea Cake. This quote is very important, because it is Janie commenting sarcastically on the way that Mrs. Turner seems to “worship” the white people. Thus this creates a very ironic image, in that she is saying that “real gods” require blood. Which I believe is a reference to the racism and lynching which were going on during this time (which would imply that the white people are being worshiped as gods, creating a very satirical comment on society).
“Trucks lines with drag kept rolling in from the ‘Glades and other outlying parts, each with its load of twenty-five bodies. Some bodies fully dressed, some naked and some in all degrees of dishevelment. Some bodies with calm faces and satisfied hands. Some dead with fighting faces and eyes flung wide open in wonder. Death had found them watching, trying to see beyond seeing.” (170)
ReplyDeleteThis descriptive quote shows not only the extremity of the situation, but also the horrifying factor of it. The parallel structure is significant, because it hints at the idea that the bodies are repetitive (in that they never end, and seem to continue forever). The fact that there are different “kinds of bodies” (clothed ones, naked ones, etc.), shows that the hurricane killed whatever was in its path and did not look at race (as said at another point in the book, the men who were finding and burying the bodies even had some trouble distinguishing race). It is an interesting note that race is not one of the things that was noticed about the bodies. The last line of this quote is significant, because the eyes are a great symbol throughout this book (obviously) and are used here to show that these people were hoping for the future to be better (trying to see beyond the current tragedy to a better time).
“Thank yuh ma’am, but don’t say you’se ole. You’se uh lil girl baby all de time. God made it so you spent yo’ ole age first wid somebody else, and saved up yo’ young girl days to spend with me.” (181)
ReplyDeleteThis quote is from Tea Cake, speaking to Janie, when she is talking about growing old. This quote is showing a loss of time in many ways, and is in some respects foreshadowing the death of Tea Cake, because it is Tea Cake basically saying that no matter when it is (or what age they are), they are meant to be together. The idea that God made her old when she was young to be young with him when she was old is a paradoctical statement that is again referencing this idea of “no time” affecting the relationship of Janie and Tea Cake.
“And how he found Janie all bit in the arm, sitting on the floor and petting Tea Cake’s head when he got there.” (186)
ReplyDeleteAlthough the image that the Doctor give s at Janie’s trial seems to be one of defending Janie (and on the surface it was), it is seeming to be a comment on Janie and Tea Cake’s death. The fact that she is petting his head, shows that the author is trying to make it seem as though Tea Cake is an animal (which would make the murder of him seem like less of a crime, since she did it to save him). It is very interesting that “petting” was the author’s word choice, because I feel that by using such terminology, she is really trying to portray to us the idea that it was really in tea Cake’s best interest to be killed (much like it would be in a dog with rabies best interest to put it down). I think in many ways, the author is trying to show the idea that Janie killed the beast inside of Tea Cake, not the man himself.
this blog must be from a different time zone because it says its 7:18 when its really 10:18 lol
ReplyDeleteTHIS IS KELLY pg 155 "Mornig came without motion. The winds, to the tiniest, lisping baby breath had left the earth. Even before the sun gave light, dead day was creeping from bush to bush watching man." i thought that this quote related well to angie's idea about the hurricane. this quote made me think of the clishe the calm before the storm. not only was it the literal calm before the storm of the hurricane but it also relates to the calm in the realtionship of tea cake and janie before the hurricane hits. i think you (angie) are on the right idea about how the hurricane and the pear tree are opposites of each other i didnt think of it like that! now that i think of that idea i am noticing in chapter 17 when janie is awaiting for the storm she kind of admires it the same way that she did with the pear tree in the beginning
ReplyDeleteAngie,
ReplyDeleteI agree completely with what you said about the hurricane and the pear tree (in that they are contrasting symbols). I also saw the hurricane as the beginning of a change in Janie (it was what essentially caused the death of Tea Cake). However, I think that the storm led to the new path of Tea Cake and Janie's relationship (in that he got rabies and she killed him, yet they will always be together, which is paralleled by the calm after the storm), more so than the destruction of Janie and Joe's relationship.
Angie-
ReplyDeleteNot sure if I completely agree with you. I can see the possible reference to Noah in that there are a bunch of animals that head east..."One or two at a time, then more. By the time the people left the fields the procession was constant. Snakes, rattlesnakes began to cross the quarters. The men killed a few, but they could not be missed from the crawling horde. People stayed indoors until daylight. Several times during the night Janie heard the snort of big animals like deer. Once the muted voice of a panther. Going east and east...A thousand buzzards held a flying meet and then went above the clouds and stayed" (155). To me, the buzzards seem more ominous and more of a symbol of destruction than the hurricane does. The buzzards were at the mule death (now that I know these are buzzards, not an actual chorus. Thanks Tessa...) which was obviously death/destruction and now they're foreshadowing the hurricane. I think that more than anything, the hurricane propels the novel's conflict. The hurricane triggers (no pun intended) the "mad dog" (183) like behaviors that lead (including him biting her arm on page 184. I thought this was good imagery and parallelism to the dog) to his subsequent shooting. I never make sense on these. Sorry, but I hope that made sense...
Brandon,
ReplyDeleteGoing off of what you said about her making more money than Tea Cake and becoming a better hunter, I think that it is making a comment on the role of the woman in this book in general (in that they are strong and often underestimated, as portrayed buy Janie's relationship with Joe)
Maddie,
ReplyDeleteI know I'm commenting on a comment, but I do agree that the fleeing of the animal is more of a reference to Noah's Arc than the hurricane itself. I also got an image of Noah's arc when they found out about how Motor Boat escaped. It was almost savior-like (as in god had a hand in saving him from the flood). I realize that this is a slight stretch but it is what I thought of. I also got a hibernation image from this passage (on page 173) when he talks about the fact that he slept through the storm and was just floating on down the flood. Which also creates a sense of irony that he was safe just sleeping, when Tea Cake and Janie were almost killed by running away (which in the grand scheme of things caused Tea Cake’s deth).
I found it ironic that Janie and Tea Cake plan to move to the Everglades to start their new life together, however it goes by the name of "the muck." It doesn't sound like a positive place where you would want to begin your new life. The muck has such a negative connotation, bringing about thoughts of dirtiness, a trap, and something that when you get caught in it, it would keep you from escaping. The irony of the title of the Everglades adds to the sudden fulcrum in chapters 13 and 14, where Janie and Tea Cake's relationship is starting to head down the wrong tracks. We begin to see Tea Cake's character paralleling that of Joe Stark's character, the oppressive male dominator.
ReplyDeleteAnother irony I found was in chapter 16, with Mrs. Turner who disliked people of her own race. "Her disfavorite subject was negroes." (140) It is crazy to think that a black woman during the time shortly after the conclusion of the Civil war (which was fought mainly over slavery and territory) would be critical of the people of her own oppressed race. One would think that she would be critical of the whites for oppressing her and her family. She says, "It's too many black folks already. We oughta lighten up de race."(140) This woman brings a little humor to the situation because noone would expect her to be criticizing people of her own race of being "too black." She sarcastically says that they ought to "lighten up," which is also a pun.
ReplyDeleteSam, I definitely agree with you about the hibernation image. That was also the first thing that popped into my head when he said he slept through the storm. It's a crazy concept because it seems pretty difficult to sleep through a flood while you are floating downstream, which is very similar to how an animal can sleep for an entire season without food or water.
ReplyDeleteSo to start off with what I found most interesting about the second half of the book...
ReplyDeleteBy the way I'd like to say that this book is probably my favorite that we've read all year - I really loved it. The vernacular might have been a bit tedious to read but it was great, and honestly I think it was all of the figurative language. :)
The entire metaphor of the lake being a monster that carried on through several pages (and basically all the way through Chapter 18, which I guess makes it a conceit) was one of the most figurative things - I thought.
"It woke up old Okechobee and the monster began to roll in his bed. Began to roll and complain like a peevish world on a grumble…The people felt uncomfortable but safe because there were the seawalls to chain the senseless monster in his bed" (158).
Then later when the hurricane made landfall…
"The monstropolous beast had left his bed. The two hundred miles an hour wind had loosed his chains…The sea was walking the earth with a heavy heel" (161-162).
"…and the pursuing waters growled and shouted ahead, "Yes, Ah'm comin'!" (162).
"But it came muttering and grumbling onward like a tired mammoth just the same" (163).
I think that the author's purpose in creating a monster to represent the hurricane and even personifying it to the point where it actually spoke was to make the entire fiasco more relatable. Those who haven't ever experienced a hurricane would probably not be able to imagine the strong winds, rain and damage caused - but imagining a monster has the same effect (the power, sounds, etc).
As for what the hurricane represents - I'm not exactly sure but I'm reading other people's comments and considering what they're saying...and it seems plausible that it is the new path of Tea Cake and Janie's relationship.
However I do think it's interesting (and maybe a bit cliché) that like Samantha said, the hurricane caused Tea Cake's death (with the dog and all) after the moment when Motor Boat, Janie, and Tea Cake were all huddled in their shack of a house and she says:
"We been tuhgether two years. If you kin see de light at daybreak, you don't keer if you die at dusk. It’s so many people never seen de light at all. Ah wuz fumblin' round and God opened de door" (159). Basically telling Tea Cake exactly how she feels (which he responded to in an oh wow I never knew that's how you really felt about me way…hence they had a "moment"…setting the perfect stage for his death (or hers - but of course we know the ending from the beginning).
Sam, I definitely agree with you when you were talking about the hibernation. As he was describing that, it was also the first thing that popped into my head. This also alludes to Noah's Arc from the old testiment because (i believe) the animals on the arc slept while the flood was occurring. It's also crazy to think that he could sleep through a flood while he is floating downstream, and it's similar to how crazy it is that an animal can sleep for an entire season without food or water and survive.
ReplyDeleteBrenna-
ReplyDeleteAfter reading your comment, I hadn't noticed it in the book, but what you had to say about Mrs. Turner reminded me of Janie beginning her story in the first chapter. She begins by talking about how she grew up with a bunch of white people, so she just assumed she was white, too, but when she found out she wasn't she was amazed and sort of in denial.
This got me thinking that maybe it is sort of the same concept, and that this woman is in a sort of denial about her own race. Eventually Janie realizes she is black and accepts it, but this woman is probably the opposite of Janie, who is more proud of her race.
To comment on Brenna's post anyone find it interesting that the negative depiction of the Everglades as Janie says at the end of Chapter 13: "Whut's de muck, and where is it at?" (128). This negative depiction is ironic because despite the fact that male dominance by tea cake represents what Janie fights against but this time of male submission actually leads to greater things as the Everglades represents an incredible experience and moment in her life in the Everglades as she learns how to learns how to do new things like shoot a gun and hunt for food actually increasing her independence not necessarily from Tea Cake but more the ability to depend on herself and not whoever she was with like she had done with Jody, and others to give herself some form of security. So overall I think that it is good that a place depicted so cacophonously is actually an area of enlightenment and growth.
ReplyDeleteAustin and Maddie-
ReplyDeleteI think the hypocrisy of Mrs. Turner serves as a social commentary on the state of the Black community in the time of the 1930s (and to a certain extent today). The racism and hatred of the institution of slavery has caused an incredibly noticeable standard of economic and social success in the black community in the fact that when a black man or woman is educated, successful, or socially respected, they are considered being a "white folks [n-word]". This would be the modern equivalent to "acting white". Mrs. Turner characterizes this in her description of Booker T. Washington as a "white folks' [n-word]" on page 142. She speaks as if she is accusing Washington for a crime in his success, as if he is selling out the black community for his success. This is hypocritical since she hates blacks so much and does all she can to distance herself from them, and beating them down like on the same page when she says "Colored folks don't know nothin' bout no business!" This is a depressing commentary on a very serious problem. Cultural stereotypes have prohibited blacks from making great accomplishments in academia and business as those areas are considered "white", and as such any black man or woman seen being successful in those areas is seen as "acting white". Race should not play this huge role in society, and I think the author is attempting to display that to the reader.
Also in chapters 18 and 19, it is quite ironic and sad that Tea Cake risked his life to save hers during the flood, and yet Janie had to kill him (even though it was for his own good.) Tea cake was the one who seemed to be the least committed to making their relationship work, and yet in the end, the people think Janie is the crazy one who killed her husband out of rage. The roles of the two characters were switched. Nevertheless, Janie learned what true love was and she really loved Tea cake. In the end, she discovered how to be content, fulfilled her Nanny's wishes and learned how to love.
ReplyDeleteTHIS IS KELLY- to brenna and jenny. i think both of your comments make a lot of sense and i think that something that you could add that would help with your argument would be janie's hair. i think that is a symbol of how she is strong and her masculinity. (don't hate me if thats spelled wrong mrs sturgis its late) i think that when her hair is down and mrs turner is obsessed with it! it represents her straightness and willingness to go along with the rules when it is in a braid she is constantly being hassled by jody who she has a power struggle with
ReplyDeleteThere were some instances in the book where the narrator seemed to be saying something that Janie would say (or I guess was thinking) and did so without quotations.
ReplyDelete"But oh God, don't let Tea Cake be off somewhere hurt and Ah not know nothing about it. And God, please suh, don’t let him love nobody else but me. Maybe Ah'm is uh fool Lawd, lak dey say, but Lawd, Ah been so lonesome, and Ah been waitin', Jesus. Ah done waited a long time" (120).
I'm not exactly sure why the author chose to do this so I'd like to hear what you guys think???
But I'll take a stab at it…
My best guess is that it was an easier way to reach the reader, and perhaps in a way managed to emphasize what was being said about Tea Cake more than it could have been if Janie had simply stated it. This way, it was obvious that she was more worried about Tea Cake than the money he took - which of course showed how much she really loves him.
(Another example of this... "Please, Jesus, don't let them…Tea Cake wouldn't harm a fly" (126).)
**This is COLLEEN.
ReplyDeleteSam-
I agree with what you said about Angie’s post. I too saw the hurricane as the beginning of a change in Janie, and also saw it as a parallel to the calm after the storm. Life before the storm seemed fine, yet there wasn’t that peacefulness between Tea Cake and Janie that there should have been and yet, after the storm (and Tea Cake’s death) you can sense almost the relief that Janie now had a bit more freedom.
One thing I also noticed - not only in the second part of the book but throughout it - were the rapid tone changes and how well they were accomplished through mostly syntax and diction.
ReplyDeleteFor example, in the beginning of the novel, the chapter when Janie meets Tea Cake for the first time (I believe I may have mentioned this before in a previous comment) it is in direct contrast to the gloomy feeling before (mostly because of Joe's death).
In the second half of the novel, there were a few instances where a tone changed occurred.
One was at the beginning of Chapter 13 when Tea Cake disappears with Janie's money.
Starting with "That morning Tea Cake got up earlier than Janie did" (117) the tone immediately changes to a more serious one, coupled along with shorter more (for lack of a better word) definite statements, contrasting the tone of the previous paragraphs where the sentences were longer and provoked entirely different feelings out of the reader (like awwwwws), such as "And there was Tea Cake in the big old station in a new blue suit and straw hat, hauling her off to a preacher's house first thing…They staged at home and rested that night, but the next night they went to a show and ager that they rode around on the trolley cars and sort of looked things over for themselves" (116-117). It's kind of hard to describe exactly how the tone change is accomplished but...I tried.
**This is COLLEEN.
ReplyDeleteAnna -
I actually noticed that as well, and at first I saw it almost as Janie thoughts because when she was praying that nothing bad had happened to Tea Cake (in the quote that you used) she was all by herself, and those were most likely the thoughts that she was thinking. This led me to question the narration of the book, because at times I feel as though it is Janie and at other times the author who is narrating. I think this is just the type of style that the author uses and it allows the author to become closer to the character and make them see more real.
Well to start off I actually agree somewhat with Anna even though the dialect kind of was tedious this book was actually good I like the plot and the message. I wanted to actually comment on a post I did for earlier in the book when I said that Janie submitted to gossip and allowed it to fuel decisions and how she lived her life and her legacy/image. But in Chapter 14 there is a reversal as she says: "She was sorry for her friends back there and the scornful others" (134). Now tea Cake has created a growth in Janie as she once listened to gossip and fear her image if she were to be with tea cake as he was younger and lower class and therefore she hid her true feelings and emotions towards Tea Cake. But now being away in the Everglades away from them has caused Janie to see into the real pleasures of life. Janie has changed her priorities and has shown personal growth through the going against societal pressures that caused her to hide her truth self, the truth is finally released
ReplyDelete*This is COLLEEN.
ReplyDeleteBrenna-
I also found it ironic that Mrs. Turner was so negative and against the black race, yet, I got the feeling that Mrs. Turner was a mix. (One parent was white and the other black) because during those times it wasn't that common due to slavery and the idea of a mistress. I believe that is why Mrs. Turner is confiding with Janie, because they are similar in that respect. That might be completely wrong, but that was the impression I got while reading that section.
I found a part in chapter 14 where in the everglades Janie is thinking about and reminsicing on the the time that she spent in Eatonville. While she is in the everglades and liking life alot better than her time spent in Eatonville she finds her voice her in the everglades. I thought it was interesting here how the author tied these two major themes of the novel, nature and finding her voice/ the power of words here. This may have been done in order to greater emphasize Janie's happiness with whom and where she is living at this point in time.
ReplyDeleteOld Post...
ReplyDeleteRelating to Austin's first post...I think Austin was the only person that I saw that mentioned the power of words. I definitely agree that the dialect is an extremely important part of this novel but also her structure, word choice, diction etc... Words seem to appear as both a symbol and also a theme of the novel. In regards to the one of themes of the novel being the power of words, it is becomes apparent when Jody is on his death bed dying and Janie refuses to be silence and as she scolds Jody, he dies. This portrays Janie words of having the power to kill and demonstrates how strong and powerful words are in this novel. Her words here can also be view as a symbol because in a way since her words are present when Jody dies, words can be symbolic of a weapon. This further could foreshadow the death of her second husband being killed by a real weapon. This transition from a words being Janie's weapon at the time to a real gun could symbolize Janie finding her voice (the transition to something intangible to concrete) I also believe that this particular event in the novel could be a fulcrum to where Janie beings to find her voice within herself.
I am sorry if someone has mentioned this already and I missed it, but I found it ironic the choice of names that the author chose throughout this book for specific characters. Some of the characters in particular that stood out to me were Mrs. Turner who prefers the white people yet she herself is black which is ironic in the sense of sort of turning on your heritage I guess you could say. Another name that I found interesting was Who Flung the younger man that the widow from Eatonville had a fling with who ended up robbing her. This was ironic to me because in a sense the name is a question and I think of the word flung as similar to the word flee (I might have made that up but it could be- the past tense of flee is flung instead of fled?) I don't know but that is what it made me think of. Anyways these names prove to be important methods of characterization throughout the story. As was mentioned earlier the significance and irony of the names Janie and Jody and Tea Cake as well.
ReplyDeleteOld Post (1st half)
ReplyDelete“Reckless words pierce like a sword, but the tongue of the wise brings healing.” (Proverbs 12: 18 NIV) Jody’s words to Janie are reckless, as well as demeaning to women. In Chapter 5 he states, …”but mah wife don’t know nothin’ bout no speech-makin’. Ah never married her for nothin’ lak dat. She’s a woman and her place is in de home.” This statement cuts Janie to the bone, and shows the truth of the Biblical quotation from Proverbs regarding reckless words. Jody’s words were not only thoughtless but also probably broke what was left of their marriage. It is interesting to note that Jody was referring to “speech” in his reckless comment about Janie. We see the emphasis Hurston puts on words (speech) throughout the novel. Jody’s attitude towards women further confirms Nanny’s previous guidance to Janie when she said “So de white man throw down de load and tell the n----- man tuh pick it up. He pick it up …” Here is where Granny explains the order of the world to Janie.
Old Post (First Half)
ReplyDeleteAs a counter to Samuel’s post about Nanny…I don’t necessarily think that Nanny feels inferior to the white people: she has simply, through years of experience, learned what reality is and how to play the game. She is a very wise woman--not necessarily inferior. Her greatest wisdom concerns the reality of marriage—the need for marriage. On page 12, she says: “Yeah, Janie youse got yo’ womanhood on yuh. So Ah mout ez well tell yuh whut ah been savin up for uh spell. Ah wants to see you married right away.” Hurston describes the woman as follows: “Nanny’s head and face looked like the standing roots of some old tree that had been torn away by a storm. Foundation of ancient power that no longer mattered.” Her power may not have mattered, but her wisdom did.
*This is COLLEEN.
ReplyDeleteChris -
I agree with what you said about Janie and giving in to pressure. I feel as though, growing up, her grandma instilled in her the idea that to be successful and happy was to be able to sit on your porch without a care in the world. After experiencing that, she rebelled a little, and I feel as though each time she lost someone, she found someone new to follow and to obey. She always seemed to be following someones orders, whether she liked them or not, and once she was at the muck, even though she still listened to Tea Cake, her ideals began to change a little because she was now a working women just like everyone else and she wore overalls instead of pretty blue dresses. I feel as though this contradicts the "strong" girl that everone seems to see in Janie, because even though she is strong and independent, she isn't. That is an idea that had me torn while I was reading this book because at times Janie stood up for herself and at others she would let others boss her around and tell her what to do, as if her opinion didn't matter.
Brenna -
ReplyDeleteThough I totally agree about the irony concerning Janie killing Tea Cake after he saved her life,
I disagree with you about Tea Cake being the one who was the least committed to making their relationship work…if you're saying what I think you are haha.
It seemed to me that Tea Cake was the one who started the whole relationship - he is the one who pursued her - he is the one who came back time and time again to the store, she never went looking for him. I do realize that at one point in the book, Tea Cake says "Janie is wherever AH wants tuh be" (148), which makes it seem like she is following him around, but when Janie sort of confesses her true feelings for Tea Cake (as if they weren't obvious)...
"We been tuhgether two years. If you kin see de light at daybreak, you don't keer if you die at dusk. It’s so many people never seen de light at all. Ah wuz fumblin' round and God opened de door" (159), the fact that she says she was "fumblin' round" - basically not looking for love or a relationship for that matter - and "God opened the door" - Tea Cake walked into her life and brought her love - shows that he was the one who was committed to and pursued her…I think anyway…
I find it interesting that Tea Cake succumbs to societal to create almost a personality disorder where he has multiple personalities that hide his true self which he reveals right after he hurts, embarrasses, or ridicules Janie. As it says on page 147: "Before the week was over he had whipped Janie. Not because her behavior justified his jealousy, but it relieved that awful fear inside of him." The societal norm of a male during that time was one that was strong and in control and when Janie goes against this manhood and begins to talk to Mrs. Turner's brother than he fears that not only will this man take his Janie but also will make the society see him as weak and not in control so he creates this alternate personality of aggression and anger in order to create a societal facade when afterwards he reveals his true self and nature when he apologizes and begs for forgiveness. This is his tragic flaw, his overwhelming obsession with the perception of himself in society.
ReplyDelete“She was borned in slavery time when folks, dat is black folks, didn’t sit down… Ah done nearly languished to death up there.” (114). I found this quote to be very interesting because of several things. The first thing that I see is the way the author compares the black/white race and how their lives are completely different. I think that this is very important to acknowledge because to me this is one of the few profound places in the novel, where the author shows the difference among the two social classes. Another reason I chose to talk about this sentence is because of the figurative language used by the author. In this sentence the author talks about the black ladies being able to sit around in the porch. By sitting down, the author makes a comment on being able to become of a different social class. I think that by making use of this symbol, the author really explains to the readers what she is talking about.
ReplyDeleteTo go along with what seems to be the overall consensus of the book, I liked how the story almost went full circle. In the beginning Janie was told what she wanted (Logan) then when she realized that that is not what she wanted she found someone else (Jody) and ran off with him, then when he died, she found someone else whom she loved (Tea Cake), who she then had to kill in order to save her own life. I find this whole circle to be ironic and interesting, particularly in the way that she moved from man to man. She was forced to marry Logan, but then she ran off with a man who she did not end up loving at all. She thought she did at first, but she then realizes that he just wanted her to look pretty basically. This is the complete opposite of what she had with Logan. After Jody dies, "she liked being londesome for a change. This freedom feeling was fine" (90). I then find it ironic that the way she loses the one she truly loves is because she had to kill him. This set up reminded me of the poem "Nothing Gold Can Stay". I know that seems random... Anyways I also thought that the fact that there were three main men in her life could be significant in some way. Possibly not in the biblical sense, but perhaps in the "third times a charm" sort of way. This would have been familiar for the audience, but also predictable in a sense, however the author is able to make her point as well as catch the audience off guard when Janie is forced to kill Tea Cake.
ReplyDeleteTo comment on Laura's post I believe that when she initially is in a relationship with Logan and later Jody that her motives were merely based on the desire of security and the words of her grandma haunting her constantly. But the relationship with Tea Cake differs because her motives for submissing to hime is her love for him. This goes back to the tree and bee/flower imagery of the perfect union in nature as they intermingle and create a beautiful harmonious relationship which is exactly what JAnie is in search for so whenever she submits to Tea cake it is not out of fear it is out of love something different than relationships of her past as they were based on money but it can't buy u happiness like love and this proves the power love as it can conquer all passions and desires.
ReplyDeleteFirst I would like to agree with Anna about the lake scene during the hurricane. In my opinion the monsterous lake was a respresentative of Janie’s life and all of the ups and downs that she has had to face through out her life. The horrific tide and fast paced currents, as well as the dark colors, symbolized how quickly things could turn ugly and how she could easily be faced with a darker fate. “-water full of things living and dead. Things that didn’t belong in water.” (165) Also I find it ironic that she held onto a cow for safety. When I think of a cow I picture a big animal that remains stationary and yet is taken for granted, much like Janie. Through out the novel she is overlooked for her mental capabilities and she is just seen as a beauty or by her old age. However, she is the one that saves people and manages to keep them afloat so its ironic that she would latch on to the cow while a dog would be attacking her; a dog that was just along for the ride, much like some of her past husbands.
ReplyDeleteAnother hugely important scene in my opinion is the burial scene after the hurricane has subsided and the ment are having to help bury all of the dead from the storm. The first striking matter is the orders for all the white people to be buried with coffins and in a better manner than the blacks. Instead the black people are expected to be buried in a dark hole and to have some lime spread over them. “Examine every last one of em and find out if they’s white or black…Don’t dump no white folks in de hole jus so.” (170-171) Despite Tea Cakes objections, similar to those of a naive child, of trying to prove that it doesn’t matter what race a person is because they are all going to the same place for judgement and the race wont affect that outcome.
Finally I want to comment on what Samantha said about Janie killing the beast inside of Tea Cake and not the actual man. For her to kill him took a lot out of Janie and she did it in not as much of his best interests but to protect herself. The love that they shared was enough for her to share to the court when she miraculously was found not guilty. Even more so was the fact that the jury was all men and all white, while all her old black friends turned against her. Overall I think Janie stuggled with the decision she had chosen to make but in the end she did not have a choice and she acted upon what she thought was the best tactic, despite losing the man she loved most.
ReplyDelete“Dem wuzn’t no high muckty mucks. Dem wuz railroad hands and dey womenfolks… ‘Taint mah notion tuh drag you down wid me.” (124) The reason I chose to talk about this quote is because just like on page 114, Hurston brings up the theme of the “differences among the social classes”. I know this theme is found throughout the whole novel just because it is set in the period right after slavery was abolished. However, I find it very interesting that the author talks about the difference of social classes among the black people. This quote also leads me to my question about Tea Cake and Janie. I know that their relationship and love withstands much criticism and they seem to be madly in love with one another, but at this point does Tea Cake really not want to take Janie because he thinks she deserves better, or could there be other feelings involved.
ReplyDelete"No expensive veils and robes for Janie this time. She went on in her overalls. She was too busy feeling grief to dress like grief" (189). I found this quote at the end of Chapter 19 to be really interesting because it is a direct comparison to Jody's funeral. For Jody's funeral she was all dressed up, yet she did not feel that much grief. I took this comment as almost a demeaning comment for Jody- almost a stab in the back sort of thing. It could also have to do with the fact that she shot him, but also she put Tea Cake out of his misery if he was going to die anyways. This comment can also be applied to the financial aspect as well as the feelings Janie had towards the men. This quote symbolizes that Janie did not need the money to be in love with a man, which took her a while to find out, but eventually she was able to find herself and come to this realization. This quote is a very powerful one and no doubt significant in the author's attempt to prove the differences between the latter two of Janie's husbands.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone else believe that Phoeby is the truth teller of this story as she seems like the only person throughout the story who does not give into societal pressures too much and instead sees past the gossip into the real soul of a person sorry this is continous throughout the book I believe it starts in the beginning and she is later interjected abruptly in the middle therefore it seems that due to her to her ability to see into the real Jaine and is the loyal friend to her even when the women in society ridicule her because of her ability to see the truth through all the lies, a quality Janie cannot see until towards the end of the book.
ReplyDelete“You don’t think Ah’m tryin’ tuh git outa takin’ keer uh yuh, do yuh, Janie, ‘cause Ah ast yunh tuy work long side uh me?... we ain’t got nothin’ tuh do but do our work and come home and love.” (122) I chose to bring this quote up because I thought it was very interesting to see how love has changed the male/female throughout the novel. Back in the beginning of the novel, when Janie was with Logan she did not like the idea of working, however, Logan told her that it was part of being a wife. Now that Janie is with Tea Cake, she doesn’t mind going out and working just so that Tea Cake can be satisfied and spend more time with her. Other examples of this change would be the fact that Tea Cake teaches Janie to shoot. Shooting, a male action is introduced by the author and I think that this along with other quotes mark the change in the role of women in the novel.
ReplyDeleteMiriam- I really agree with what you said about Samantha's comment on Janie killing the inner beast of Tea Cake, but I wanted to add one thing. What I found kind of important or at least interesting about this situation is the fact that while Janie was protecting herself, she also has to live with killing the one man she truly loved. After all Tea Cake was bitten by the dog while saving her life, and then was actually killed when she shot him. But she did have to dehumanize him in a sense in order to protect herself. It is hard to say what I would have done if I were in her shoes because I have never been in any situation even remotely similar, but I am not sure if I would have had the courage to shoot someone I loved, even if it was for their own good. I think the author uses this to demonstrate the courage and the self realization that Janie has finally gained and become aware of throughout the book.
ReplyDeleteChris,
ReplyDeleteI agree with you about the role Phoebe plays in the novel. Just like you said, I think that Phoebe is able to see past the criticisms and insults of the other people, and is very sincere and honest with Janie. If you think about the "truth-teller" role that Phoebe plays, one of the things I found interesting (this may be taking it pretty far) is that if you think about when Janie first met Tea Cake, he took her fishing. Janie told Phoebe this and she wanted her husband to take her fishing. I think that here, the author foreshadows and tells us that Janie and Tea Cake's relationship will be honest and she does this by indirectly showing it through Phoebe.
The ending of the book is amazing as it comes full circle to the beginning but with a whole new perspective. The idea at the very end: "The kiss of his memory made pictures of love and light against the wall. Here was peace. She pulled her horizon like a great fish-net. Pulled it from around the waist of the world and draped it over her shoulder. So much of life it meshes! She called in her soul to come and see (193)." This shows the cycle the simile shows how her horizon was love and tea cake allowed her to reach the horizon she had been looking for a harmonious and true love much like that of the bee and the flower. The clothing imagery also shows her great wisdom and experience and how she is now at peace with herself and that before she would be bothered by what the ladies would gossip about her but she now does not care it has no matter for her because she has done something and realized something that not many experience true natural love that transcends even the after-life. She has come full circle as a women and her transformation is complete placing her back into the place she started and show same environment, different girl and shows her inner strength and now can be at peace with herself. The ending was great much better than the drop-off of Handmaid's tale.
ReplyDeleteChris- I definitely agree with what you said about Phoebe being the truth teller in this story. If I remember correctly I think that she mentions something early on in the book about being careful with men, and then it seems as though she was right when Tea Cake keeps mysteriously disappearing, but then he always comes back to Janie, so it is hard to say whether or not she is the truth teller exactly. However I agree that she does not necessarily give into the societal norms when it seems as though all of Janie's old friends turn against her. But I definitely agree with the whole interspersed-ness of Phoebe acting as almost a conscience or a warning for Janie- kind of that angel on one shoulder versus the devil on the other in a way- the warnings/forshadowings.
ReplyDeleteCarly,
ReplyDeleteI thought that the interpretation of your passage on page 182 and the way you were able to see the allusion were really interesting. I also found another reference to the bible on page 104.. "Ah'm de Apostle Paul tud Gentiles. Ah tells 'em and then agin Ah shows 'em…” This is when Tea Cake is telling Janie about her about her beautiful eyes, and Janie responds back by saying that he has probably already told this to other girls just like the apostle Paul to the Gentiles. I think that this allusion is important because the apostle Paul was a truth-teller and ran from oppression.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe ironies in this book seem to be abundant and in addition to the irony that Brenna mentioned and I commented on I'd like to point out exactly how ironic the scene where Janie kills Joe is...
ReplyDeleteThe fact that he says in chapter 14
"Tell yuh whut, Janie, less buy us some shootin' tools and go huntin' round heah"
and then says
"Oh, you needs tuh learn how [to shoot a gun]" (130).
and then later it is pointed out that her shooting was actually better than his but he was proud of his "pupil" (I couldn't find the exact quote...haha)
Anyway this all leads up to the moment when Janie fires her gun and
"Tea Cake crumbled as his bullet buried itself in the joist over Janie's head" (184).
Evidently, he taught her how to shoot well, and his shot missed her but her shot got him (obviously because he died), making this all very ironic. I feel like the purpose of these ironies and some of the foreshadowing even is to create a sort of everything happens for a reason vibe...most likely a view of the author - but that's just a guess.
Just got home from baseball. Sorry Mrs. Sturgis Matt and Bruce can vouch why we're not on here
ReplyDeleteWas anyone dissapointed by the ending? I think I was. To me it seemed very anti-climatic with Janie just living out the rest of her life without Tea Cake or any other lover for that matter. I expected her to either be happy with Tea Cake at the end of the book, or run off with another man and start a new chapter in her life.
ReplyDeleteAlso these are technically 45 minutes late because I just got home from baseball.
On Laura's comment on Miriam's comment on Samantha's comment about killing Tea Cakes inner beast. I don't think Tea Cake really had any more of an inner beast than anyone else in the book. He treated Janie with respect and only beat her because he was jealous, and back in the time period that wasn't uncommon. Tea Cake cares for Janie and I think that his jealously, which some might mistake for an inner beast or monster, to be a less conventional way of showing his love. While I do think the symbol of the dog is important, although I'm not entirely sure what it stands for, I do not think the rabies was meant to become Tea Cakes physical manifestation of some demon inside of him.
ReplyDelete“You don’t think Ah’m tryin’ tuh git outa takin’ keer uh yuh, do yuh, Janie, ‘cause Ah ast yunh tuy work long side uh me?... we ain’t got nothin’ tuh do but do our work and come home and love.” (122) I liked Omar's interpretation of this quote a lot. I never realized that Janie had shifted from being a lazy young girl to a hard working woman. I think that her middle relationship, if we can call it that, with Jody caused her to lose her fear of work because she loved Jody and wanted to work hard to please him. After she lost her love for Jody she kept this same working attitude and Tea Cake didn't have to put up with a young lazy version of Janie. I think that the book would have been a lot different without Jody and that Janie would have been a much different person had Tea Cake met her at Logan's house.
ReplyDeleteOn Collen's comment.
ReplyDeleteI don't agree that Janie wasn't a strong or independent woman. I feel like no one takes into account societal norms, like Tessa (offense) who said he succumbed to societal norms and hit Janie and that it was bad. If one puts his or her self in the shoes of these characters they would realize that going against the norm results in alienation and exile. No one desires to be a social outcast so we do certain things to stay in the good graces of others. Janie was strong for a woman and her having the courage to leave Logan at 17, and then remarry at 40 is proof enough for me. Her independent personality developed after the death of Jody when she was truly on her own for the first time in her life, and like her work ethic, continued to be a part of her character into her later years.
Fallon-
ReplyDeleteBuilding on your explanation of “Dis is a love game”, I feel that this quote represents also how Janie thinks of love. I think it goes back to her loving the idea of love and wanting that more than anything. Tea Cake seems to be a great candidate for a husband to give what she pictured from love. I feel like potentially this had the makings of a failure with Tea Cake as well because I did not think that she would ever think of love as more than a game. This changes with Tea Cake and I believe that is because she figured out what love is on her own and I feel she had no previous knowledge of true love before Tea Cake, just her idea of it.
Corinne-
ReplyDeleteI found this part of the book to be interesting as well. I was confused on what actual reasoning Phoeby had for giving the advice she gives. After reading yours, I would have to agree with your reasoning that it is concern. “Janie, you be keerful ‘bout dis sellin’ out and goin’ off wid strange men.” This could be interpreted as being harsh or concern, in the context I think it is concern because of the context of the situation. Although she refers to Tea Cake as a strange man she is still looking out for Janie’s well being.
Laura-
ReplyDeleteI find it to be significant as well that she has three men in her life, I would probably agree with the fact that it was third time is a charm. I think the whole idea of the book is for her to understand what love is and to stay true to herself. With Logan Killicks, I feel that the marriage did not work because it was not what she had thought of has her ideal type of love. With Jody, I feel that it was doomed because she stayed true to her idea of love as appose to herself. She thought Jody could provide what she wanted from love and he did not. Then, while reading I was thinking that her and Tea Cake were bound to failure because she referred to love as a game in chapter 12. I was sure that this meant she would never really understand love. It ends up working because she stays true to herself and not her grandmother or her idea of love. So, in a way I guess there are three parts of the equation as well. What her grandmother wants. What Janie wants in her mind. What Janie needs being true to herself. I think the two other marriages are their because they show what happened to love in each situation.
Omar,
ReplyDeleteAbout your idea about the quote on p. 124. I feel that this quote is significant because it seems to try to be foreshadowing that their love will never work. It shows a lack of trust between them. Tea Cake makes it seem that she should have better than him and he is worried. At this point I was thinking this is definitely foreshadowing that this will not work. I did not however catch the real foreshadowing which was in the next quote with Janie. “… Ah specks to kill tuh kill yuh dead.” Although she threatens that she would kill him for something different than the reason she kills him in the end, it is obviously still foreshadowing of what will happen. This seems to me to be a very cool writing strategy by the author because it almost leads the reader to think that the book is predictable and it ends up being a surprise even though the author hid clues throughout the book of the ending.
Laura-
ReplyDeleteBuilding on your explanation of the quote on 189, I have a slightly different idea than you about the meaning of the quote. I feel like the quote has a simple meaning. I do not think it is a stab in the back to Jody, I think it is more of a praising her love for Tea Cake. She dressed up for Jody’s wedding to make it seem like she was grieving because she needed everyone to believe she was. At tea cakes wedding people could portray it as she does not care enough to get dressed up for his funeral, when really it is she cares enough about him, that she does not care what other people think of her when she is grieving for her. She is true to herself. She knows she is grieving and does not need to prove it to anyone other than herself, which seems to be a reoccurring idea throughout the book.
Matt- I was dissapointed with the depressing ending. However, I feel like it was significant because it proved that love was no longer a game for Janie. She had found love and lost it. Earlier in the book she would have tried again with love because she would want what she always dreamed of from love, however by the end she realizes that the love she had with Tea Cake was more than what she had ever pictured or wanted from love because it was true love and she was true to herself as appose to true to her grandmother or true to her idea of love. So in conclusion, I do think it was a good ending because the reader knows that she will never feel the love she felt for Tea Cake ever again.
ReplyDeleteSorry that this was a little late, I was working on it around 10 and fell asleep on my computer and woke up at 3.
ReplyDelete